Was the Sioux war useless hindsight is 20/20

[lens]

By 1876 the bison were disappearing, the "invasion" from the east was going and there was no stopping it.  The large encampment on the LBH was unsustainable.  Too many people and ponies.  The nomadic tribes camped, depleted/used what resources they could and moved.  Sometimes following the buffalo, but they were getting scarce.  Crook got caught with sleeping.  He was saved by his scouts they were in enemy territory they should have been at 50% alert or better, they weren't.  .  I do not think Crook would have been attacked if his column would have looked like they were ready.  According to what I have read Crook had 993 men in uniform and was attacked by approx 1000 Indians  1-1 odds are pretty good considering Crook should have had his men acting as a unit not as individuals it should have been to Crooks favor.  The Indians won there and LBH but still lost within a year.  If they would have pushed and scattered them and kept pushing there would have been no time to hunt, fix gear, or replace the things left behind as they were pushed from one encampment to the next.  Yes they would splinter into smaller groups which would have more easily intimidated into returning.  The army had a good idea where they were and Custer definitely knew on the 24 th.  If the intention was to actually get the Indians to comply and return to the reservation they could have "laid siege " to the encampment they had two columns, Crook had already retired from this campaign, they still could have stayed just out of easy rich and waited them out.  When they move, follow the big groups and wear them down.  Instead this was a punitive action to punish instead of corral the Indians. What happened at the Rosebud and LBH really only spurred the Army into pushing the Indians until they broke.  Could have done that without the battles.  The Indians had a weakness the Army didn't, they had women and children they had to move and protect.  Just a thought  

[edavids]

Mar 27, 2017 13:14:33 GMT -6 lens said:

By 1876 the bison were disappearing, the "invasion" from the east was going and there was no stopping it.  The large encampment on the LBH was unsustainable.  Too many people and ponies.  The nomadic tribes camped, depleted/used what resources they could and moved.  Sometimes following the buffalo, but they were getting scarce.  Crook got caught with sleeping.  He was saved by his scouts they were in enemy territory they should have been at 50% alert or better, they weren't.  .  I do not think Crook would have been attacked if his column would have looked like they were ready.  According to what I have read Crook had 993 men in uniform and was attacked by approx 1000 Indians  1-1 odds are pretty good considering Crook should have had his men acting as a unit not as individuals it should have been to Crooks favor.  The Indians won there and LBH but still lost within a year.  If they would have pushed and scattered them and kept pushing there would have been no time to hunt, fix gear, or replace the things left behind as they were pushed from one encampment to the next.  Yes they would splinter into smaller groups which would have more easily intimidated into returning.  The army had a good idea where they were and Custer definitely knew on the 24 th.  If the intention was to actually get the Indians to comply and return to the reservation they could have "laid siege " to the encampment they had two columns, Crook had already retired from this campaign, they still could have stayed just out of easy rich and waited them out.  When they move, follow the big groups and wear them down.  Instead this was a punitive action to punish instead of corral the Indians. What happened at the Rosebud and LBH really only spurred the Army into pushing the Indians until they broke.  Could have done that without the battles.  The Indians had a weakness the Army didn't, they had women and children they had to move and protect.  Just a thought  

In 20-20 hindsight you may be correct but at the time a lot of people in high places were in favor of eliminating the Native Americans and their way of life.

Best,

David

[dave]

These post war veterans running the country were not patient with any aspect of life especially the Indians. The United Sates was preparing for the Centennial Celebration and nothing would stand in the country's way, certainly not the nomadic tribes west of the Mississippi.

The Native Americans were seen as irritants not as potential fighters. America has a history of taking potential enemies for granted much to our detriment. Who would have thought these nomads would be any challenge to the US Army?
Regards
Dave

[crzhrs]

By 1876 it was evident that it was just a matter of time before the last free-roaming Indians would either be defeated or relent to constant pressure to give up and go on to reservations.

However, as we have seen throughout history when a people/culture is threatened they will do whatever it takes to survive. The vast majority of Free Roamers wanted to be left alone and continue their traditional way of life.

They were also ready to make a deal to ensure they had an adequate land-base to keep up their way of life and culture. However, the US, then as now would not give up anything that threatens Manifest Destiny or give into "savages'" to be left alone.

There were a number of poltiicans and civic minded people who wanted to create a Buffalo Reserve, not only to protect the buffalo and millions of acres of pristine wilderness but also a place for the last free Indians to slowly assimilate into White Society. They were ignored and the capitalist/military complex won out and resulted in the disastrous Spring/Summer Campaign of 1876 with Crook botching not only a March Attack on the supposed camp of Crazy Horse (False) but his humiliating defeat at the Battle of the Rosebud leading to the debacle at the LBH.

Overconfidence, racism, bigotry, big money influencing politicians and the White Way or No Way overcame reason and sensibility resulting in Custer's and the 7th's ignominious defeat at the LBH.

After the shock and awe wore off it was just a matter of increasing military spending and manpower to run down the last of the Nomadic Way of Life in North America to be replaced to what we have now.

[lens]

You sound like my history professor from LOOOOONG ago

[crzhrs]

Mar 28, 2017 13:54:00 GMT -6 lens said:

You sound like my history professor from LOOOOONG ago

I'll take that as a compliment!

[lens]

That was how it was meant.  My favorite professor.

[crzhrs]

Good . . . except I'm not that old . . . I guess opinions of what took place haven't changed even from LOOOOONG ago!