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Post by mchlwilson on Nov 16, 2015 18:43:36 GMT -6
Black Elk tells the story of young Indian boys, himself included, discovering a soldier hiding in a large bunch of bushes on the west side of the river below Reno Hill on the day after the battle. Black Elk says they shot arrows at this poor forsaken soul but did not succeed in driving him out until they lit the bushes on fire. He was then killed by an older warrior.
Is the identity of this soldier known? My guess is that it would be a soldier with the Herendeen bunch who elected to stay in the timber when the others departed.
Michael
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Post by magpie on Nov 16, 2015 19:16:09 GMT -6
Kind of fits what we would all expect that there were a scattering but the romantics killed their tales.
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Post by fred on Nov 16, 2015 19:21:51 GMT -6
Black Elk tells the story of young Indian boys, himself included, discovering a soldier hiding in a large bunch of bushes on the west side of the river below Reno Hill on the day after the battle. Black Elk says they shot arrows at this poor forsaken soul but did not succeed in driving him out until they lit the bushes on fire. He was then killed by an older warrior. Is the identity of this soldier known? My guess is that it would be a soldier with the Herendeen bunch who elected to stay in the timber when the others departed. Michael, It was probably John Armstrong of Company A. He remained in the timber, refusing to leave. I cannot see anyone else involved in the retreat hiding on the west side of the river... at least being killed. Armstrong's head was found in the village and a headless body, tentatively identified as Armstrong's, was found around 1925 (?) and re-buried. Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by mchlwilson on Nov 16, 2015 20:06:40 GMT -6
Black Elk tells the story of young Indian boys, himself included, discovering a soldier hiding in a large bunch of bushes on the west side of the river below Reno Hill on the day after the battle. Black Elk says they shot arrows at this poor forsaken soul but did not succeed in driving him out until they lit the bushes on fire. He was then killed by an older warrior. Is the identity of this soldier known? My guess is that it would be a soldier with the Herendeen bunch who elected to stay in the timber when the others departed. Michael, It was probably John Armstrong of Company A. He remained in the timber, refusing to leave. I cannot see anyone else involved in the retreat hiding on the west side of the river... at least being killed. Armstrong's head was found in the village and a headless body, tentatively identified as Armstrong's, was found around 1925 (?) and re-buried. Best wishes, Fred. Thanks Fred. Does that mean Armstrong is the soldier whose remains were discovered by the Weibert family? |
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Post by fred on Nov 17, 2015 6:39:16 GMT -6
Michael,
I do not know if it was Webber who found the body, but you may be correct. Here is what I have written about Armstrong in one of my books:
Killed in the valley, his headless body found near Dorman’s. Liddic claims he was one of those who wound up staying in the timber and then refusing to leave when everyone else left. His scorched head was purportedly found in the lower part of the Indian village and identified by Myles Moylan. Headless remains found on May 25, 1926, were thought to be his and were buried at Garryowen, MT, as an unknown soldier.
Best wishes,
Fred.
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Post by fred on Nov 17, 2015 8:38:38 GMT -6
Michael,
By the way, another body was found, but it does not fit your descriptions other than it was found at the edge of the river. This would have been the acting first sergeant of G Company, Edward Botzer. It is highly doubtful Botzer would have hid for a day; plus, his body was discovered by archaeologists, not way back with the Webber people.
Several bones—including most of the facial bones—found on the banks of the LBH at Reno’s retreat crossing during a 1989 archeological dig, were almost certainly his, though there was some speculation they might be PVT Moody’s (Company A). Tests indicated the bones were from a 30 – 40 year old white male, 5’ 7” tall. Subsequent forensic reconstructions indicate the bones were most likely Botzer’s. Ken Hammer claimed he was killed at the retreat ford.
So, pick your poison.
Best wishes,
Fred.
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Post by magpie on Nov 17, 2015 11:25:46 GMT -6
How near Dorman and was it? Dorman marker or some other essence of Dorman, did they do a proper job and record it? Seems if it was close to Dorman the headless trooper was more likely killed early in the retreat. Dorman marker being far enough from Reno's Hill to be distinct to most minds. Also the scalp dance, what night was that? The one bit where someone thought they saw people being burned tied to a stake. I would estimate the head was burned that night.
In the Arikara Nar. several of the Ree's where hiding in bushes below Reno Hill on the West side but a little up stream after the retreat but on the 25th and fending off Sioux from personally killing them, even talking to them. There must have been some secure hides then.
Does Black Elk say what he did on the 25th?
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Post by mchlwilson on Nov 17, 2015 12:29:48 GMT -6
Michael, By the way, another body was found, but it does not fit your descriptions other than it was found at the edge of the river. This would have been the acting first sergeant of G Company, Edward Botzer. It is highly doubtful Botzer would have hid for a day; plus, his body was discovered by archaeologists, not way back with the Webber people. Several bones—including most of the facial bones—found on the banks of the LBH at Reno’s retreat crossing during a 1989 archeological dig, were almost certainly his, though there was some speculation they might be PVT Moody’s (Company A). Tests indicated the bones were from a 30 – 40 year old white male, 5’ 7” tall. Subsequent forensic reconstructions indicate the bones were most likely Botzer’s. Ken Hammer claimed he was killed at the retreat ford. So, pick your poison. Best wishes, Fred. Fred,
The Weibert Family discovery and Armstrong must be the same. I saw the marker last year when I was searching for the Dorman, Reynolds and McIntosh markers. It is just like the markers on the battlefield and says "Unknown U.S. Soldier, Discovered by Weibert Family 1925" or words to that effect. Henry Weibert describes the discovery in his book "66 Years".
According to Chris Kortlander of Gary Owen, the remains were used in the 1926 Reunion as the "Unknown Soldier".
Thanks,
Michael
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Post by wyton1 on Apr 24, 2017 12:02:39 GMT -6
In the autobiography book "Black Elk Speaks", where Black Elk retells his memories to a white man who writes everything down, Black Elk talks about being at the Little Big Horn Battle as a very young man. He said he came apon a soldier who was face down and severely wounded but still alive. An older Indian on horseback rode up to him and said "what are you waiting for? scalp him". So Black Elk did. He said he remembered the man didn't move, just kept grinding his teeth in pain till it was done. Said he took the scalp into the village later on and his mother howled with pride when she saw her son had taken his first scalp.
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