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Post by chris on Jul 4, 2015 19:09:17 GMT -6
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Post by Beth on Jul 4, 2015 20:14:00 GMT -6
Harvey sure had a way with a story.
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Post by dave on Jul 4, 2015 22:18:18 GMT -6
He always made us proud to be Americans. Greatly miss a man like him today especially with all of the anger and rancor in the public sector. We seem to have the lost the ability to communicate ideas and opinions in a civilized manner on both sides.
Regards
Dave
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Post by quincannon on Jul 5, 2015 7:58:36 GMT -6
Have any of you any idea what the Second Continental Congress was really like. It was not, suffice to say, the 1776 version of events with Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin singing and dancing. We sugar coat our history.
Rancor and anger is exactly what we signed up for in 1789. It's called Republican Democracy. The only difference today is the anger, rancor, and turf wars were much worse then than they are today.
There are two fundamental truths that must be driven home to every American, every day.
The good old days weren't, they were just old.
Obtaining liberty, and a republican form of government, regardless of the bloodshed and sacrifice involved, is not nearly as hard a job as keeping it.
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Post by montrose on Jul 6, 2015 10:56:20 GMT -6
Prior to 1876, we enslaved 11% of our people. After 1876 we enslaved the rest. The USA is not a democracy, it despises the common people. We have been a two party dictatorship since 1876. It is legally impossible for any other party to win an election.
We despise North Korea, which has been a party dictatorship since 1950. Yet the USA has been a party dictatorship since 1876.
This is like the argument on the CSA. The CSA was an evil regime, with evil men fighting for an evil cause. The whole argument on the flag is insane. The flag the white supremacists fly in the south is the KKK flag. The flag of a terrorist organization. The flag flown at lynchings, murders, etc.
Robert Lee ordered thousands of kidnappings and forced enslavements of free blacks during the war. No one mentions this.
I am proud to be an American. We are the world's leader in human values. But this started in 1964 in reforms under LBJ. Prior to 1964, we had serious ethical and moral failures, and our constitution was a monument to evil.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 6, 2015 13:28:38 GMT -6
I am at a total loss as to why you choose the year 1876.
Some random thoughts on the matter at hand:
The Constitution was ratified and adopted in 1789.
The Founders initially did not adopt a two party system, in fact opposed it, thinking that temporary alliances would be formed, and individual issue driven. The Founders did not understand human nature in that regard.
Were there to be the emergence of a third party, and should it gain power, the probable outcome would be the eventual diminishing of one or both existing parties, and you would be back to status quo.
The two party system is not the problem. The problem is that members of both parties do not have the political guts to do what they, as elected representatives, can only do, that being put what they feel is the welfare of the United States ahead of any personal or party driven agenda.
Politics is and will always be the art of the possible.
If you want direct action TODAY, RIGHT NOW, get yourself a dictator, and drop the idea of republican democracy altogether.
In a republican democracy, three things are or should be apparent:
1) If everyone is pissed off and dissatisfied to some extent, the government of, by, and for the people is doing its job.
2) If you have 51% on your side, and 49% against you, then you may consider things are as they should be.
3) Over time persuasion works. Don't waste your time trying to persuade if something needs doing this afternoon. On those occasions, you do what needs doing, and fall back upon the dictum that it is easier to ask forgiveness than it is to seek permission.
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