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Post by quincannon on May 10, 2015 21:59:16 GMT -6
No takers on the trivia question.
The answer is the 32nd Infantry Regiment "The Queen's Own", activated in Hawaii, and Queen Liliuokalani, The Queen of Hawaii, attended the activation and bestowed that title on the regiment, as it was the first U S Army unit activated on Hawaiian soil.
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Post by Beth on May 10, 2015 23:35:49 GMT -6
No takers on the trivia question. The answer is the 32nd Infantry Regiment "The Queen's Own", activated in Hawaii, and Queen Liliuokalani, The Queen of Hawaii, attended the activation and bestowed that title on the regiment, as it was the first U S Army unit activated on Hawaiian soil. Ah! Thanks for providing the answer.
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Post by Yan Taylor on May 11, 2015 6:11:23 GMT -6
Good job you told us the answer Chuck, as I would be still searching for the answer come autumn (fall to you guys).
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on May 11, 2015 6:45:49 GMT -6
Well Ian seems like you enjoy U S Army trivia.
In FECOM in one certain division, you often heard the expression "Get out the way, here comes Nickel O Tray". What did this refer to, and in what division was it often heard, and why did it stop?
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Post by Yan Taylor on May 11, 2015 7:48:58 GMT -6
Chuck just were are you getting this trivia from? I cannot find Jack S*** on any of that stuff.
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Post by quincannon on May 11, 2015 8:03:41 GMT -6
It has all come from a misspent youth of 72 years and counting Ian.
HR won't be joining us for a bit due to other matters that require his immediate attention, and notified me by PM this morning. I replied that my interest has lasted better than fifty years and would probably still be there when he gets back. After I sent the message I realized it has been more like 65. I vividly remember such things at the Naktong River battles and the breakout from Chosin reported on the nightly news. I was seven at the time and it has jus stuck with me all these years.
If you don't have Blair, and Appleman (especially Appleman), Fehrenbach, Millett, and Billy Mossman, you are unlikely to find the clue that leads to the answer for what is above, if fact most of what I will post here from time to time.
A good start for you though would be "Combat Actions In Korea, by Gugler, and I think it is one line from CMH.
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Post by Yan Taylor on May 11, 2015 8:26:00 GMT -6
I do find the Korean war interesting, the amount of nations involved was incredible and most of the weapons used were ex-WW2. apart from some of the tanks (Pattons and Centurions) plus a few of the recoilless infantry weapons you could say that little had changed.
Apparently the US troops loved the British Churchill Crocodile flame-thrower tank, its armour was so thick that the North Koreans were helpless against it, it could also climb steep hills which was an advantage in itself.
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on May 11, 2015 10:01:06 GMT -6
It was a transition period in both weaponry and organization, which I find interesting above and beyond, battle history alone.
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Post by quincannon on May 11, 2015 10:24:15 GMT -6
You are badly in need of a hint Ian. I will attempt to give it to you in my normal convoluted manner.
Units in the U S Army often adopt unofficial mottos (very unofficial). The unit in question in this latest bit of trivia used that expression as theirs.
Now the convoluted part, and the real hint is contained therein. The only unit of the Maryland Guard to serve in Korea, had a similar unofficial motto. Theirs was "You Call, We Haul, You All". It was an all Black transportation battalion (at that time the 140th TCB I think - It changed designations so many times over they years it's hard to be sure). The unit was raised right after the ACW as a separate rifle company called the Monument City Guards, and its last known designation was the 229th Supply and Transport Battalion, and that has since changed. In WWI it was made a part of an all Black regiment gathered from many States and fought with the French. Evidently it was quite good, at least good enough to receive the Croix de Guerre with palm. So using this you will find a hint somewhere contained therein at least good enough to figure out why it stopped. The Nickel O Tray ought to tell you something about the unit designation, and once you get that finding the division the unit was part of is a snap.
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Post by Yan Taylor on May 11, 2015 12:06:09 GMT -6
Chuck, the 371st Infantry regiment got the Croix de Guerre with Palm, but the only thing I can link black troops and a Nickle is the 555th parachute infantry battalion.
Ian.
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Carl
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Post by Carl on May 11, 2015 12:24:06 GMT -6
It was a transition period in both weaponry and organization, which I find interesting above and beyond, battle history alone. That era is meaninful to me. I did not serve in Korea, but did serve both before and after with many who did. I suspect that those in my age cohort (1930 +/-) suffered proportionaly as many casualties as did those of an older age in WW2. There were just 4 males in my HS class and one was KIA in Sep 1951 (in lst Cav div). My best friend at Ft. Belvoir in 1949 was KIlled. I sometimes speculate how many in my Basic platoon are still not accounted for, as several went directly to Japan in 1948. There were many changes waiting to be implemented to improve professionalism in a then all-volunteer army that were put on hold due to the war.
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Post by quincannon on May 11, 2015 12:57:02 GMT -6
Another adventure into the long locked vaults of the U S Army Ian.
The Triple Nickel was the 555th Parachute Infantry Company then Battalion. They were a first rate airborne battalion, all Black, that never saw combat. Instead they were used during WWII as smoke jumpers in the western U S fighting forest fires. After WWII they were attached to the 82nd at Bragg, and Jim Gavin God love him said I have had enough of this segregation crap, inactivated the battalion, as a battalion and assigned all the personnel to the 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment (of the 82nd).
There was another such action at Fort Meade, MD with the 3rd Cavalry Group in either 47 or 48. The 3rd CG was converted from a two squadron group to the new tables that organized from that group, the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment of three battalions. The third battalion was an all Black squadron of cavalry that was inactivated and the personnel spread around into all three of the regiments battalions. If memory serves it was before Truman's order, but just before.
All Black units were a pain in the ass from more than one standpoint, but one stands out as very significant - personnel assignment. The 24th Infantry Regiment (25th ID) in Japan is an excellent example. They were well overstrength, when every all white unit was crying for people. It was a combat readiness problem that never would and never could be solved while MacArthur was CG of FECOM --- totally disgraceful. MacArthur and Bradley both gave Truman the finger, and either did what they wanted or drug their feet in implementation.
In FECOM it was never solved until Ridgway took over from MacArthur and had about enough of not being able to run his command as he saw fit. Ridgway inactivated the all Black 24th Infantry and replaced it with the 14th Infantry Regiment. That is what it looked like on paper. In reality, he brought the 14th Infantry Colors from Fort Carson, and filled it with both White and Black troops from within FECOM. The same with the 9th Infantry Regiment whose 3rd battalion was all Black. It was an exercise in the 3rd Battalion of you, you, and you are now in the 1st and 2nd battalions, transferred immediately, and you, you, and you in the 1st and 2nd Battalion your going to the 3rd Battalion. Happened within a day or so, and while in the line.
That brings us to the trivia question. "Get Out of The Way, Here Comes Nickel O Tray" was the 503rd Field Artillery Battalion (155mm Howitzer). They had been formed in 1917 at Camp Meade, Maryland as a battalion of the all Black 351st Field Artillery Regiment (92nd Div.). When WWII broke out and all the FA regiments were broken up this battalion became the 503rd, but still all Black, and served through WWII. Needing a place for Black troops the 503rd was assigned to the 2nd Inf. Div. in 1946, and the 12th FA Battalion was inactivated, replaced by the 503rd. The 2nd Infantry Division went to Korea in the summer of 1950, and the 503rd went with it. It was at the same time that Ridgway was integrating 8th Army and FECOM that the 503rd a historical all Black unit was inactivated, but not only that the history of the unit, because the battalion did well for itself, was consolidated (what you Brits call amalgamation) with the then inactive 12th FA Battalion, the consolidated unit designated 12th FA Battalion and restored to the active roles. The history and lineage of the 503rd can be found in today's 12th Field Artillery Regiment and there is a battalion of that regiment still active in the 2nd Infantry Division at Fort Lewis.
The 371st Infantry Regiment is where the Monument City Guards ended up in WWI. That is another fairly interesting story, at least to me. We formed a 93rd Division in WWI. It has no historical relationship, unlike the 92nd, with the 93rd ID of WWII - check the lineages I sent you. In reality the 93rd contained a headquarters and only four Infantry Regiments, no FA or service troops. The sole purpose of the division headquarters was to get these four Black regiments trained and shipped over seas. When that was done the headquarters was disbanded. These four Black regiments were assigned to various units of the French Army. The 369th Infantry Regiment was one of these, a former National Guard regiment recruited in Harlem, New York City. There is an NG commissioned painting of them entitled "Hell Fighters From Harlem" really good military art work I think.
I can't remember what Fred told me about his NYNG service, I know he was in a Trans unit at one time, and the 369th later became the 369th Trans Group. Perhaps that may have been Fred's Trans unit, but I don't know for sure.
The whole episode of Black units in FECOM is a disgrace Ian. Most of the problem was sub sewer white officers sent to Black units to get rid of them. There was a white guy who commanded the 24th Infantry named Champany who was a complete racist dork, and the 24th sucked canal water. Champany was replaced by John T. Corley (an Infantry legend and awarded 5 Silver Stars)and all of a sudden these same troops could walk and chew gum after all, the Heavenly intervention of leadership. Pay heed to what Montrose says about Custer's 7th, Same crap different number.
Black units at battalion level were generally just as good and many times better that their white counterparts. The 64th Tank Battalion "The Tuskers"stands out as one of these in both WWII (then the 758th Tank Bn.) and in Korea. They later became the 64th Armor, and led the 3rd ID into Baghdad in 2003.
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Post by Yan Taylor on May 11, 2015 13:12:31 GMT -6
Just checked the linage Chuck, which is were I should have started all along, the name FECOM is what threw me as I don't recall receiving any data concerning them directly from you.
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on May 11, 2015 13:22:07 GMT -6
You didn't. FECOM, an abbreviation of Far East Command did not come into existence until after WWII. It was MacArthur's headquarters in Japan, a joint headquarters containing Eighth Army, 5th Air Force, and 7th Fleet (operational control). It also controled KMAG (Korean Military Advisory Group) in Korea and the Military Advisory Group in Japan. After the Korean War started it was also United Nations Command for all intents and purposes when dealing with the Korean situation and still FECOM outside of Korea. It also contained X Corps as a unit separate from Eighth Army, as eluded to before a way that MacArthur could put the screws to Walker. MacArthur was a pettylittleshit, and never let anyone tell you any differently without a fight.
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Carl
Full Member
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Post by Carl on May 11, 2015 16:22:29 GMT -6
Chuck is absolutely correct about the integration process. It took until 1952 for this be accomplished in EUCOM. There was some foot dragging apparently.
Chuck mention you and you will go. Absolutely correct. I was picked to go to an all Black unit - notified late one afternoon, on the truck for my new home the next morning. The following morning at our first formation I selected myself as the platoon sergeant and remained it for the next 23 months. For me, this episode turned into a lesson on the absolute importance of command leadership in a Battalion sized unit.
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