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Post by welshofficer on Apr 23, 2015 5:02:35 GMT -6
"super Dreadnaught" appears in Siegfried Breyer's Battleships and Battle Cruisers 1905-1970, German language edition 1970, first published in English 1973. Breyer uses it to characterize the Orion Class due to introduction of the 13.5 inch gun and some 2,500 ton growth in displacement over proceeding 12 inch gun Colossus Class. He also mentions the adoption of all center-line turrets, though his focus seems to be on the increase in calibre and displacement. I do not find the term in use in R A Burt's British Battleships of World War One, published 1986. Burt is considerably more exhaustive on the British ships than Breyer, but than again Breyer covers every nation's vessels. I'd wonder if Breyer may have coined the phrase. His work is the earliest survey I'm aware of. Any one know of an earlier use of the term than 1973? Mike,
The focus is absolutely upon increased calibre and displacement. Nothing to stop one increasing the calibre without centre line firing, but unacceptable consequences in terms of beam, draught etc. Never forget the RN were dependent upon a canal for imperial movement and it wasn't in Panama....
WO
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Post by quincannon on Apr 23, 2015 8:34:15 GMT -6
It also effects support facilities as well. Increased length and beam that would be associated with a non-centerline bigger gun design would require much larger dry docks for refit and repair. The larger the ship becomes there are fewer dry docks that can accommodate them. We were starting to have that problem just before WWII when the Iowa, Midway, and Montana Classes were on the drawing boards. We started building 1000' docks at many of our navy yards. Dry Dock 4 and 5 at Philly, Dry Dock 4 at the South Boston Annex are two examples that remain of this work. There was also a transition from building on building ways and dry dock construction. Ways have a limited length and width capacity.
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Post by welshofficer on Apr 23, 2015 15:49:28 GMT -6
QC,
Same issues for RN. Dry docks would have had to be widened throughout the Empire. And one could buy a few more dreadnoughts with that expense....
WO
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Post by quincannon on Apr 23, 2015 15:56:00 GMT -6
I saw Iowa in dry dock 4 at Philly about 1960, and as big as she is, in that dry dock she looked like a (rather large) toy boat in a bath tub. If memory serves that one is 1100 feet long and 250 wide. DD5 is its twin
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Post by welshofficer on Apr 23, 2015 16:55:10 GMT -6
QC,
Quite. Think how defenceless Scapa Flow was in 1914, the RN not wanting to spend money that could otherwise be spent on more battleships/battlecruisers on a North Sea naval base. The Liberal Govt of the era was funding huge social reforms, lest we forget the political priorities of the Edwardian era.....
WO
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Post by quincannon on Apr 23, 2015 17:24:15 GMT -6
According to the film the best social reform as far as those islands went was putting the fleet up there.
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Post by welshofficer on Apr 24, 2015 2:30:11 GMT -6
Not quite what the tranquil Orkneys were used to....
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Post by dave on May 6, 2015 16:26:19 GMT -6
Lord Fisher once wrote:
The Country threatened and the foeman nigh, God and our Navy' is the Nation's cry. The victory won and the wrongs righted, God is forgotten and the navy slighted.
Kinda of like "dogs and soldiers keep off the grass." Reards Dave
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Post by Beth on May 10, 2015 0:18:14 GMT -6
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Post by Yan Taylor on May 10, 2015 7:05:24 GMT -6
Beth I am amazed that people actually managed to get round the world on those vessels, but they were truly magnificent ships.
Ian.
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Post by Beth on May 10, 2015 13:59:37 GMT -6
Beth I am amazed that people actually managed to get round the world on those vessels, but they were truly magnificent ships. Ian. I agree.
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Post by chris on May 10, 2015 14:19:00 GMT -6
On an aircraft carrier, you would never know if there was a storm, unless you went on weather decks. Best, c.
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