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Musashi
Mar 18, 2015 14:27:22 GMT -6
Post by quincannon on Mar 18, 2015 14:27:22 GMT -6
I an not at all sure that a third strike was considered. Fuchida mentions it, but I think it has been largely dismissed by most good historians, and Fuchida considered self serving.
Eight to nothing. Twenty to nothing. It would not matter. We were going after them, regardless of cost and regardless of the time it would take. You do not do that to us with impunity. If you try, get your personal affairs in order because you are going to die.
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Musashi
Mar 18, 2015 15:43:49 GMT -6
Post by dave on Mar 18, 2015 15:43:49 GMT -6
QC You mentioned the Montana class in a post. They were cancelled to build the Essex class carriers. The brown shoe navy had taken over. Regards Dave
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Musashi
Mar 18, 2015 18:03:02 GMT -6
Post by quincannon on Mar 18, 2015 18:03:02 GMT -6
No Dave I did not mention the Montanas. It was the Ich Dien Kid.
Not sure that is true though. The Essex Class could be built on conventional shipways. I think all were if memory serves. The Montanas needed graving docks for their build, and so did the Midways, so I think the Midway Class was the prime reason. No question though that the Essex Class requirements, production resources, shops and personnel, caused the Montanas to slip lower on the construction priority list.
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Musashi
Mar 18, 2015 18:51:57 GMT -6
Post by dave on Mar 18, 2015 18:51:57 GMT -6
QC Sorry for the mistake as it was WO who posted the comment. I know that raw materials were allocated to the carriers as this was the greatest need. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Mar 18, 2015 19:24:57 GMT -6
Fahey makes the specific comment in the 1941 edition of Ships and Aircraft of the U S Fleet, that the Montanas would be built, I think his exact words without checking were, in huge graving docks now under construction. Of course the Montanas were still very much on the table when the 41 S&A went to press. What he was talking about were dry docks being built at Norfolk, Boston South Annex, Brooklyn, and Philly. Dry Dock 4 and 5 at Philly are two examples. By 43 when the Montanas were canceled along with three Alaskas, it was probably a combination of all of the factors we have discussed, material, personnel, shop space, higher priorities, obsolete type of vessel, all of them.
Just in passing I asked Robert Summerall, who wrote two defining books, one on the Iowas, and another on the Sumner/Gearings, and who was for many years the curator of models at the USNA museum, why did we include Benson/Livermores in the emergency authorization and expansion plan signed into law post Pearl Harbor when the Fletchers then in production, and also included in the emergency expansion, we so clearly superior vessels. He said ---Because we could. By 43 the Because we could was looking more like --- Do we really need.
I don't mind at all getting confused with Ich Dien, Actually I think it classes me up considerably.
You may already know that Ich Dien means I Serve. What you probably don't know is that the rest of WO's tag line are the immortal words of LT Bromhead and roughly translated from the Welsh mean - Who in the hell left me holding the bag at Roarkes Drift.
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Musashi
Mar 18, 2015 20:00:20 GMT -6
Post by welshofficer on Mar 18, 2015 20:00:20 GMT -6
QC,
Laugh out loud. Don't think the Gurkhas and Royal Welsh translate exactly as that!
Bromhead was a little deaf, so him and his company always got left behind on logistical tasks. Like guarding a field hospital...
WO
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Musashi
Mar 18, 2015 20:02:40 GMT -6
Post by welshofficer on Mar 18, 2015 20:02:40 GMT -6
WO I fail to see the beauty of Akagi. In fact, the IJN's carriers, cruisers and battleships except for Yamato and Musashi were not pretty ships. The stacked bridges and laid back smoke stacks were not attractive. Their ships were effectively used and crews well trained for attacking. Smokeless powder, deadly long lance torpedoes and excellent night viewing optics were deadly attributes for the IJN. Regards Dave Dave,
The battlecruiser hull must definitely be a British taste. Blame Jackie Fisher.
I guess you might need to compare an aerial view of the Akagi with the Kaga, to see the difference.
WO
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Musashi
Mar 18, 2015 20:13:20 GMT -6
Post by quincannon on Mar 18, 2015 20:13:20 GMT -6
Beautiful drawing of them in Shattered Sword and they are both as ugly as homemade sin. Akagi does have a sleek hull but that superstructure just screws the whole thing up. Kaga is just plain double ugly. We did the IJN a favor, sending her to a final reward.
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Musashi
Mar 19, 2015 15:05:38 GMT -6
Post by quincannon on Mar 19, 2015 15:05:38 GMT -6
Today is March 19th. In light of our recent carrier discussion what do remember that transpired on this date?
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Musashi
Mar 19, 2015 15:32:33 GMT -6
Post by welshofficer on Mar 19, 2015 15:32:33 GMT -6
QC,
Alas, not RN sweepers man your brooms.....
WO
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Musashi
Mar 19, 2015 16:00:24 GMT -6
Post by quincannon on Mar 19, 2015 16:00:24 GMT -6
No, not sweepers man your brooms. USS Franklin bombed and burned and the, God I hate to use this word, heroic actions of USS Santa Fe in helping save her.
The 19th of March is emblazoned in my memory, because it is the Feast of Saint Joseph. The elementary school I attended was run by the Sisters of Saint Joseph, and we would get off school on that day. The day immediately before, starting about the fifth grade, we would all be told of USS Franklin, and of Commander Joseph O'Callahan, the only Catholic priest awarded the Medal of Honor in WWII, (a Jesuit Fred). According to the nuns it was a combination of Father O'Callahan, and Santa Fe (In Spanish Holy Faith) that saved the Franklin, and that if you did not listen an heed these lessons you were going to roast in hell. Then they showed you slides of the Franklin burning just to get the point across. I loved Catholic school.
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Musashi
Mar 19, 2015 16:26:40 GMT -6
Post by tubman13 on Mar 19, 2015 16:26:40 GMT -6
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Musashi
Mar 19, 2015 16:38:47 GMT -6
Post by tubman13 on Mar 19, 2015 16:38:47 GMT -6
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Musashi
Mar 19, 2015 16:50:25 GMT -6
Post by Beth on Mar 19, 2015 16:50:25 GMT -6
No, not sweepers man your brooms. USS Franklin bombed and burned and the, God I hate to use this word, heroic actions of USS Santa Fe in helping save her. The 19th of March is emblazoned in my memory, because it is the Feast of Saint Joseph. The elementary school I attended was run by the Sisters of Saint Joseph, and we would get off school on that day. The day immediately before, starting about the fifth grade, we would all be told of USS Franklin, and of Commander Joseph O'Callahan, the only Catholic priest awarded the Medal of Honor in WWII, (a Jesuit Fred). According to the nuns it was a combination of Father O'Callahan, and Santa Fe (In Spanish Holy Faith) that saved the Franklin, and that if you did not listen an heed these lessons you were going to roast in hell. Then they showed you slides of the Franklin burning just to get the point across. I loved Catholic school. Sounds like a Catholic education. I still remember my first day of 1st grade, the first world we learned to spell was God and our science lesson was the sun's glow makes the grass green because it is God's will. What Saint's day was it when they tried to strangle you with crossed candles so you wouldn't choke on fishbones? Beth
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Musashi
Mar 19, 2015 16:51:24 GMT -6
Post by tubman13 on Mar 19, 2015 16:51:24 GMT -6
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