Post by fred on Aug 31, 2013 8:30:12 GMT -6
Mac,
As far as I remember, the following constitute the only recorded instances where someone remarked on the orders Reno received:
PVT Davern heard LT Cooke order Reno to charge: “‘Gerard comes back and reports the Indian village three miles ahead and moving. The General directs you to take your three companies and drive everything before you.’ Those I believe were the exact words.”
LT Hodgson told CPT Myles Moylan Reno’s orders were to charge the Indians—they were supposed to be running—and Reno would be supported by Custer’s command. Hodgson told Moylan specifically Custer said he would support Reno.
Dr. Porter heard LT Cooke—he thought about one o’clock, “right near where they struck the first tepee where the dead Indians were”—tell Reno the Indians were just ahead and to charge them. Reno asked if he would be supported, “if the general was coming along,” and Cooke answered yes, the general would support him.
Reno wrote: “As we approached a deserted village, and in which was standing one tepee, about 11 AM, Custer motioned me to cross to him, which I did, and moved nearer to his column until about 12:30 AM (PM?) when Lieutenant Cook, adjutant, came to me and said the village was only two miles above, and running away; to move forward at as rapid a gait as prudent, and to charge afterward, and that the whole outfit would support me. I think those were his exact words.” Reno claimed the only orders he was given were given to him by Cooke, “about five miles from the village…. Custer says to move at as rapid a gait as you think prudent, and to charge afterward, and you will be supported by the whole outfit.” LT Cooke brought Custer’s order to Reno. “This order was brought to me by Colonel Cooke… After Colonel Cooke gave me these instructions [before reaching Ford A] he rode with me for some time, as also Captain Keogh, and said, in his laughing, smiling, way, ‘We are all going with the advance and Miles [sic] Keogh is coming too.’ My attention was then taken up with the ford which I was to cross with the companies, and I never saw either alive again.”
Reno at the RCOI—Cooke told Reno to move his command to the front and when Reno did so there was some sort of a commotion going on among the scouts. They were stripping and preparing for a battle. Reno reached the head of the column and shortly after, Cooke gave him an order from Custer: “General Custer directs you to take as rapid a gait as you think prudent and charge the village afterwards, and you will be supported by the whole outfit.” Reno was asked a question about this support. “From the manner I received the order I could not conceive of any other manner of being supported except from the rear.… in my opinion there was no other way to support me.”
1SG Ryan—By these lodges, they could now see “down through this little valley and see objects ahead of us.” They could not tell whether the objects were buffalos or Indians. Ryan says this was when Reno got his order and he would be supported, but Ryan admitted to not having heard the order given.
LT Wallace did not see Custer communicate any orders directly to Reno. He thought he would have heard something if Custer had spoken to Reno. “I am pretty positive about it. I saw no one approach him but Lieutenant Cooke, and I saw and heard no other order given.” After passing the tepee, the adjutant [Cooke] came to Reno and said, “the Indians were about two miles and a half ahead and Major Reno was ordered forward as fast as he could go and to charge them and the others would support him.” These were the last orders Wallace heard. The columns were parallel when Reno received those orders, maybe twenty to twenty-five yards apart. Wallace said the order was about this way: “‘The Indians are about two miles and a half ahead, on the jump, follow them as fast as you can and charge them wherever you find them and we will support you.’” Wallace pointed out these were the last orders he heard issued and said the order was given about this way: “The Indians are about two miles and a half ahead, on the jump, follow them as fast as you can and charge them wherever you find them and we will support you.”
There is a lot of give-and-take regarding these orders, but if you weed through all the differing ideas, theories, and nonsense, think of it this way. By the time Custer gave Cooke the orders for Reno, what was and what had happened? The command was less than two miles from the river; several people reported seeing upwards to 50 Indians, probably less than a mile away and heading for the river; dust was beginning to rise (from pony drovers) in the valley, and it was heading in the direction of the downstream village, not upstream; no reports had been received from Benteen; Varnum was about to report everything seemed to be downstream, not up; and one could certainly come to the conclusion that everything they were looking for was off to the right. If Custer was so all-fired sure his battalion configurations were strong enough and he had a "good" idea of the Indian size, why would he not assume the entire mess was downstream? He sent Reno to attack... and it would be the village, not some 50 or so warriors, that in the bigger picture were meaningless.
Custer, being a reasonably savvy commander and tactician, would also not send Reno off without support... as promised in virtually every report we have seen. That support would be traditional and as expected, not off on some wild-goose chase and so-called flank attack across tough hills, ravines, and coulees. It would be from behind... as a "second wave," if you will. Anything else is sheer nonsense and would show me a complete lack of tactical knowledge.
As for the use of the word, "afterwards," it pertained to after Reno used as "rapid a gait," and nothing else. The estimate of the village being 5 miles away was also pretty accurate and it shows me-- despite all the dissembling we hear and read-- Custer knew precisely where it was located. In actuality, the distance was probably around 4 ½ miles... not a bad guess.
Best wishes,
Fred.
As far as I remember, the following constitute the only recorded instances where someone remarked on the orders Reno received:
PVT Davern heard LT Cooke order Reno to charge: “‘Gerard comes back and reports the Indian village three miles ahead and moving. The General directs you to take your three companies and drive everything before you.’ Those I believe were the exact words.”
LT Hodgson told CPT Myles Moylan Reno’s orders were to charge the Indians—they were supposed to be running—and Reno would be supported by Custer’s command. Hodgson told Moylan specifically Custer said he would support Reno.
Dr. Porter heard LT Cooke—he thought about one o’clock, “right near where they struck the first tepee where the dead Indians were”—tell Reno the Indians were just ahead and to charge them. Reno asked if he would be supported, “if the general was coming along,” and Cooke answered yes, the general would support him.
Reno wrote: “As we approached a deserted village, and in which was standing one tepee, about 11 AM, Custer motioned me to cross to him, which I did, and moved nearer to his column until about 12:30 AM (PM?) when Lieutenant Cook, adjutant, came to me and said the village was only two miles above, and running away; to move forward at as rapid a gait as prudent, and to charge afterward, and that the whole outfit would support me. I think those were his exact words.” Reno claimed the only orders he was given were given to him by Cooke, “about five miles from the village…. Custer says to move at as rapid a gait as you think prudent, and to charge afterward, and you will be supported by the whole outfit.” LT Cooke brought Custer’s order to Reno. “This order was brought to me by Colonel Cooke… After Colonel Cooke gave me these instructions [before reaching Ford A] he rode with me for some time, as also Captain Keogh, and said, in his laughing, smiling, way, ‘We are all going with the advance and Miles [sic] Keogh is coming too.’ My attention was then taken up with the ford which I was to cross with the companies, and I never saw either alive again.”
Reno at the RCOI—Cooke told Reno to move his command to the front and when Reno did so there was some sort of a commotion going on among the scouts. They were stripping and preparing for a battle. Reno reached the head of the column and shortly after, Cooke gave him an order from Custer: “General Custer directs you to take as rapid a gait as you think prudent and charge the village afterwards, and you will be supported by the whole outfit.” Reno was asked a question about this support. “From the manner I received the order I could not conceive of any other manner of being supported except from the rear.… in my opinion there was no other way to support me.”
1SG Ryan—By these lodges, they could now see “down through this little valley and see objects ahead of us.” They could not tell whether the objects were buffalos or Indians. Ryan says this was when Reno got his order and he would be supported, but Ryan admitted to not having heard the order given.
LT Wallace did not see Custer communicate any orders directly to Reno. He thought he would have heard something if Custer had spoken to Reno. “I am pretty positive about it. I saw no one approach him but Lieutenant Cooke, and I saw and heard no other order given.” After passing the tepee, the adjutant [Cooke] came to Reno and said, “the Indians were about two miles and a half ahead and Major Reno was ordered forward as fast as he could go and to charge them and the others would support him.” These were the last orders Wallace heard. The columns were parallel when Reno received those orders, maybe twenty to twenty-five yards apart. Wallace said the order was about this way: “‘The Indians are about two miles and a half ahead, on the jump, follow them as fast as you can and charge them wherever you find them and we will support you.’” Wallace pointed out these were the last orders he heard issued and said the order was given about this way: “The Indians are about two miles and a half ahead, on the jump, follow them as fast as you can and charge them wherever you find them and we will support you.”
There is a lot of give-and-take regarding these orders, but if you weed through all the differing ideas, theories, and nonsense, think of it this way. By the time Custer gave Cooke the orders for Reno, what was and what had happened? The command was less than two miles from the river; several people reported seeing upwards to 50 Indians, probably less than a mile away and heading for the river; dust was beginning to rise (from pony drovers) in the valley, and it was heading in the direction of the downstream village, not upstream; no reports had been received from Benteen; Varnum was about to report everything seemed to be downstream, not up; and one could certainly come to the conclusion that everything they were looking for was off to the right. If Custer was so all-fired sure his battalion configurations were strong enough and he had a "good" idea of the Indian size, why would he not assume the entire mess was downstream? He sent Reno to attack... and it would be the village, not some 50 or so warriors, that in the bigger picture were meaningless.
Custer, being a reasonably savvy commander and tactician, would also not send Reno off without support... as promised in virtually every report we have seen. That support would be traditional and as expected, not off on some wild-goose chase and so-called flank attack across tough hills, ravines, and coulees. It would be from behind... as a "second wave," if you will. Anything else is sheer nonsense and would show me a complete lack of tactical knowledge.
As for the use of the word, "afterwards," it pertained to after Reno used as "rapid a gait," and nothing else. The estimate of the village being 5 miles away was also pretty accurate and it shows me-- despite all the dissembling we hear and read-- Custer knew precisely where it was located. In actuality, the distance was probably around 4 ½ miles... not a bad guess.
Best wishes,
Fred.