|
Post by montrose on Aug 21, 2012 7:00:08 GMT -6
There is a practice in the military called a rock drill.
In a rock drill, you make a proposed move of your forces, then discuss friendly and enemy situation, and possible enemy responses. Basically, I do this, he does that, then I do this.
We call it a rock drill,...ummmm, because we use rocks. We create a terrain model on the ground of the area,and then use rocks, toy soldiers, tanks to represent units. It may sound silly, but it is an excellent way to get everyone on the same sheet of music,especially if involving units who speak different languages.
(In some missions in Africa, I would give an order in English, which gets translated in the primary language the officers speak (English, French, or Arabic) and then translated into the tribal tongues the soldiers spoke. Anyone want to volunteer to lead the assault element, knowing that your life depends on the guys at the end of the chain knowing when to lift or shift fires? Friendly fire: isn't that friendly).
I think using a rock drill approach may be useful in sparking a discussion of the battle.
The amusing part is we use blue and red as the terms for the sides in the exercise, which is appropriate here. Maybe QC,DC, Fred blue, Steve, Billy, myself red, or whatever people prefer. I would like help from former military folks in explaining and assisting, but this format can encompass everyone,which is the point of the exercise.
If there is an interest, I can start work to put something together.
Respectfully,
William
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Aug 21, 2012 8:26:28 GMT -6
I'm in. Either side for me. I am an equal opportunity loser. I once lost Gettysburg as Meade. My opponent did what Ewell did not do near the end of the first day. Of course my opponents counters were not nearly as tired as Ewell's Corps, having fought most of the day.
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 21, 2012 8:41:26 GMT -6
How did you lose Chuck, I hope you were sober, if not I would have said to you; ‘’Sgt Major Quincannon, You got a breath on you like a hot mince pie’’. That’s before you were forced to join the Colorado Temperance Society
Yeah Will, I will have a go, that’s if you will have me on board, used to love Wargaming, not sure how it will work online, but I am game.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Aug 21, 2012 9:17:43 GMT -6
Sober as a judge. I made the same mistake I rail about constantly on these boards. I assumed that my opponent would do what I thought he would do, and not what he could do. It costs you to only a game lost in wargaming. In real life it causes you to lose men's lives.
This is exactly what Will is getting at with his proposal. You work these things out beforehand, and critical mistakes like I made at Gettysburg come to light without men dying.
That same line was lifted by a 1930's John Ford movie staring Will Rogers - "Judge Priest" That one is well worth your time, and not often shown. Life in post ACW Kentucky (without Hussars) The building where that line was delivered is still standing. It is still decorated for the movie. It is located at Gouldin's Trading Post in Monument Valley, right on the Arizona-Utah border. The trading post was Ford's headquarters for films like Stagecoach, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Sergeant Rutledge, The Searchers, and more. You can see the trading post itself in the opening scenes of Fort Apache when Fonda's stagecoach pulls up to what was the stage coach stop.
|
|
|
Post by benteen on Aug 21, 2012 10:13:16 GMT -6
Colonel Montrose,
That sounds like a real interesting excercise, if you are willing to give your time and put something together it would be a pleasure to take part in it.
Be Well Dan
|
|
|
Post by wild on Aug 21, 2012 11:08:26 GMT -6
We called them T.W.Ts ;tactics without troops. The exercise was designed to practice NCO's and junior leaders in the use terrain ,fire and movement. A position was taken on high ground overlooking the exercise area, the problem or mission was explained,time allowed to consider orders and tactics and then each team pontificated a solution. Interesting to note that the Japs wargamed Pearl Harbour.One scenario suggested was the absence of the US carriers.This of course queered up someones glorious plan and was ruled out of order. Anyway as I'v not been invited to participate don't expect a loan of my Custer frilly shirt.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Aug 21, 2012 11:24:35 GMT -6
Who says you wern't invited. Read it again.
|
|
|
Post by benteen on Aug 21, 2012 13:33:30 GMT -6
Anyway as I'v not been invited to participate don't expect a loan of my Custer frilly shirt. Richard, Dont worry my friend, we can be Mathey and Mcdougall with the pack trains (In the rear with the gear) let the Officers and others figure out the tactics. They are going to need bullets, beans , and bandaids to win any war. Thats where we come in Be Well Dan
|
|
|
Post by wild on Aug 21, 2012 13:42:01 GMT -6
Dan You're the only soldier on this board. Regards
|
|
|
Post by Gatewood on Aug 21, 2012 13:51:41 GMT -6
This is ostensibly about war gaming the battle, but, while I find it to be one of the more informed, even handed analysis of the battle, I'm not quite sure where the war gaming comes in. The author dangles it out there like a carrot throughout his thesis but never quite gets to it, at least not in any detail, but jumps directly to conclusions. It's a long read, but I think worth it. For those who do not have the patience, the Cliff Notes version is that he concludes that the only possibility for success would have been if the entire regiment had entered the valley with Reno and driven the Indians before them, but how much "gaming" is behind that conclusion is not readily apparent. edocs.nps.edu/npspubs/scholarly/theses/2000/Dec/00Dec_Burns.pdf
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Aug 21, 2012 15:22:15 GMT -6
Gatewood: I will read it later. The best way to fight this battle will reveal itself as a result of the rock drill. At least it will be the best collective solution, that no doubt will be subject to a lot of WTF's and But Fors. No matter.
As to the cliff notes on the above. From a tactical standpoint crossing at Ford A and attacking the villages from the south with the entire regiment, logistics fairly close at hand offers the advantage of an unassailable right flank, and having sufficient forces to fend on the left. The only little screw thrown into the works is that while you may just give them a bloody beating, many will flee, and there will be a need to fight the by then weakened hostiles again as a whole, or be prepared to run each band down one by one. Therefore the round them up, no escape objective precludes an attack such as this. Of course anyway else you do it they are going to flee and escape anyway, without the bloody nose, because the objective was in itself unrealistic an unattainable.
|
|
|
Post by benteen on Aug 21, 2012 16:14:14 GMT -6
Gatewood: I will read it later. The best way to fight this battle will reveal itself as a result of the rock drill. At least it will be the best collective solution, that no doubt will be subject to a lot of WTF's and But Fors. No matter. . Colonel/Richard, You both seem to have a firm grip on what this type of excercise is.I am looking forward to it, not to jump the gun, but is this an excercise where you are told, for instance, You are Custer how would you attack this village, or you are Custer what would you do. What I mean(Probably not very clear) is suppose I wouldnt attack. I would put a strong show and let the Indians move, as long as they moved North toward Terry. They would have to follow a water source so they would naturaly head up the Yellowstone, exactly what I would want. Perhaps when they saw Terrys column they would realize it is over and surrender and no one would have to die.Not soldiers or Indians. Be Well Dan
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Aug 21, 2012 16:43:15 GMT -6
Dan: Let's see how Will sets it up. Basicly it is a variation of examining say course of action A. Define the course of action,. Then what are the possible reactions.
What Richard described above is called a TEWT (tactical exercise without troops) or a staff ride where the scenario is laid out for you and you arrive at several decision points along the way, examining each. Custer comes to a crossroad and went left instead of right. Was that a good decision? Should he have gone to the right? If so what would have been the effect? It's that type of exercise, but it is usually played out on the actual ground.
This is more of a tool to wargame possible solutions and reactions to those solutions. I am going to take one company to X Hill. How should I do it? What will the enemy do? Am I prepaired for that, if so how?
Seems Will wants to do it two sided, and that's a good thing. It keeps you in the game and you have a thinking enemy opposing you as opposed to a set series of reactions or a school solution.
I presume Will intends to act as an impartial umpire. That is probably the hardest job of all. I am reminded of a similar type exercise played some years ago called Bear Trap. During the exercise our brigade was attacked by a Soviet tank regiment (-). that appeared out of nowhere. We handily defeated them with a combination of restricted terrain and an overly large number (certainly more than allowed by MTO&E). of anti-armor weapons of various types. When the attack was shattered the unpire threw a fit, asking my brigade commander - where in hell did you get all those anti-armor weapons. He smiled and said - the same place you got all those damned tanks.
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 22, 2012 4:18:04 GMT -6
I invited myself Richard, it seemed like a rum Do, so I threw my hat into the ring, just need my starting orders now to get going, I will serve you well chaps (which side will have me I don’t know), Maybe me and Richard could be paired together in the same group, that should help UK/Irish relationship, I can be Sharpe and Richard could be Harper.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by rosebud on Aug 22, 2012 12:19:09 GMT -6
If you guys play by the rules of 1876, this will be a short game indeed.
Blue moves first...I assume this is Custer.......The expected result of each and every move by blue will be followed by .......Red is expected to run.
Rosebud
|
|