Post by Dark Cloud on Feb 11, 2011 10:28:28 GMT -6
On the other board, they're talking up Winston Churchill, who was the real deal in that he fought as a soldier and officer in myriad circumstances in his life. Further, he also played a huge role in the Royal Navy, and even before being Prime Minister twice, he'd been important in saving not just his nation but western culture from the latent barbarism under both the Kaiser and Hitler. Against all procedure he'd kept the Navy on alert so it was ready at war's start in 1914, and noticed that the Army was somehow in charge of Naval shell storage and had devoted elderly reservists to this essential commodity and pumped that up in time to prevent sabotage.
He was also motivated by the dissolution of his famous and brilliant dead father and the activities of his sexually active mother, who once married a man Churchill's age. Nevertheless, through her he could approach Salisbury to get attached to Kitchener's Army against Kitchener's wishes.
He also screwed up, covered up, and allowed his decidedly racist mentality of his class and times to lead to error, but on the whole he's one of the few nearly as great as advertised.
Churchill was a good soldier, and when he resigned after the Gallipoli fiasco (which WAS a good idea had the lunkheads in the Army been on the ball once at the beach) he went to serve in the trenches under heavy artillery fire. As a descendent of Marlborough and a Cabinet Officer he could easily have avoided all that.
It might be of interest to note he thought Arthur Balfour the bravest man or the most fearless he ever met. Balfour - lovingly called 'Bloody' Balfour by the charmed Irish - was put in charge of Ireland after his predecessor had been killed. He's one of the few who inflicted violent martial control while also elevating and building the Irish institutions (universities, roads, jobs) in equal and fair measure and before leaving could wander the streets with neither guard nor weapon.
Churchill was insightful about the Navy without actually knowing a lot about seamanship. He seems to have thought that once a ship was launched and fitted out, it was ready and could be counted as such. It took months for a trained crew to be battle ready, and crews of lesser material could take much longer. This provided issues.
He seemed not to understand that maximum speed was not perpetual and ate up the time a ship was available before a refit. On the other hand he pushed and approved the construction of the Queen Elizabeth battleships that served well for two world wars.
However, his orders were confusing and subject to interpretation. He and he alone wrote the orders that allowed the Goeben to escape bringing Turkey in on the side of Germany leading to Gallipoli, and a bit later allowed a confused Craddock to be wallopped in the Pacific. He seems to have known that and spent time in memoirs trying to spin these issues without lying. It was close.
He further made something of a fool of himself explaining the Battle of Jutland in that he had to praise both Jellicoe and Beatty while coming down on the side of the then worshipped Beatty. He ended up saying, in effect, that Jellicoe had prevented the Germans from winning rather than risking all for a Trafalgar, allowing the blockade to continue, which forced the Germans out, the US in, and so won both the battle and the war. Which was true, but as Massie observed by suggesting 'next time it had to be done differently.' Weak.
He was also motivated by the dissolution of his famous and brilliant dead father and the activities of his sexually active mother, who once married a man Churchill's age. Nevertheless, through her he could approach Salisbury to get attached to Kitchener's Army against Kitchener's wishes.
He also screwed up, covered up, and allowed his decidedly racist mentality of his class and times to lead to error, but on the whole he's one of the few nearly as great as advertised.
Churchill was a good soldier, and when he resigned after the Gallipoli fiasco (which WAS a good idea had the lunkheads in the Army been on the ball once at the beach) he went to serve in the trenches under heavy artillery fire. As a descendent of Marlborough and a Cabinet Officer he could easily have avoided all that.
It might be of interest to note he thought Arthur Balfour the bravest man or the most fearless he ever met. Balfour - lovingly called 'Bloody' Balfour by the charmed Irish - was put in charge of Ireland after his predecessor had been killed. He's one of the few who inflicted violent martial control while also elevating and building the Irish institutions (universities, roads, jobs) in equal and fair measure and before leaving could wander the streets with neither guard nor weapon.
Churchill was insightful about the Navy without actually knowing a lot about seamanship. He seems to have thought that once a ship was launched and fitted out, it was ready and could be counted as such. It took months for a trained crew to be battle ready, and crews of lesser material could take much longer. This provided issues.
He seemed not to understand that maximum speed was not perpetual and ate up the time a ship was available before a refit. On the other hand he pushed and approved the construction of the Queen Elizabeth battleships that served well for two world wars.
However, his orders were confusing and subject to interpretation. He and he alone wrote the orders that allowed the Goeben to escape bringing Turkey in on the side of Germany leading to Gallipoli, and a bit later allowed a confused Craddock to be wallopped in the Pacific. He seems to have known that and spent time in memoirs trying to spin these issues without lying. It was close.
He further made something of a fool of himself explaining the Battle of Jutland in that he had to praise both Jellicoe and Beatty while coming down on the side of the then worshipped Beatty. He ended up saying, in effect, that Jellicoe had prevented the Germans from winning rather than risking all for a Trafalgar, allowing the blockade to continue, which forced the Germans out, the US in, and so won both the battle and the war. Which was true, but as Massie observed by suggesting 'next time it had to be done differently.' Weak.