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Post by Rabble on Sept 14, 2006 7:04:58 GMT -6
Taken many years ago in Front Royal, I don't know if the sign is still there Ron
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Post by alfuso on Sept 14, 2006 10:21:35 GMT -6
I believe the LBHA was trying to get the state to get rid of it or change it to reflect what really happened.
alfuso
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Post by Tricia on Sept 15, 2006 12:09:57 GMT -6
What changes would we propose to said sign, "... executed by General Custer under orders from General Philip Sheridan?"
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TopKick1833
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Sherlock the Beagle Dog
Posts: 80
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Post by TopKick1833 on Nov 14, 2006 18:57:03 GMT -6
Howdy all,
The sign is still there in the same spot. Good bit of Custer dislike in this area due to tales past down. I live just up the road in Cedarville.
TopKick1833
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Post by alfuso on Nov 18, 2006 8:10:37 GMT -6
What changes would we propose to said sign, "... executed by General Custer under orders from General Philip Sheridan?" No, it would reflect that the men were executed by Torbett and Merrit's men under orders from Torbett.
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Post by southfork on Nov 18, 2006 12:25:55 GMT -6
The killings were more lynching than execution and happened so quickly, its difficult to tell now how far up the executions were authorized. Charles Lowell of the Reserve Brigade in Merritt's 1st Division wrote his wife saying that order came from the division commander.
Also, to bless it off by saying it was Merritt's men (not Custer) would be like saying it was Lincoln's men not Merritt's unless Custer was totally out of the loop. Custer at the time was a brigade commander in Merritt's Division. I can't tell that Custer ever wrote or was quoted about the incident.
Torbert's entire command was pretty well in a sour mood over being trumped by a much smaller unit of Virginia boys at a place called Milford 12 miles south of Front Royal. The attack by Mosby's men added insult to injury.
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TopKick1833
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Sherlock the Beagle Dog
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Post by TopKick1833 on Nov 18, 2006 18:09:19 GMT -6
Tis true about the Milford fight, but at Yager's Mill (right after the Milford fight) Custer got some payback. He led the 6th Michigan and two squadrons of the 2nd Mass. in a charge onto the Confederate right. The 6th Virginia counter-charged but was pretty much overcome by Custer's men in short order. In this fray the regimental colors of the 6th Virginia was captured by Pvt. Philip Baybut of Co. A 2nd Mass. Cav. (MOH awarded).
Even with this success, Sheridan reported that Torbert's efforts in Page Valley were an "entire failure". So maybe the hangings were payback?
TopKick
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TopKick1833
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Sherlock the Beagle Dog
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Post by TopKick1833 on Nov 18, 2006 19:33:10 GMT -6
After checking my notes, the Yagers Mill did not occur until the 24th.
This is what I know of events surrounding the mentioned sign.
After the defeat at Milford on 23 Sep., Torbert withdrew to Front Royal but was ordered by Sheridan to push down the Luray Valley that afternoon. While Mosby's men were attempting their escape from the town of Front Royal after a raid on a union wagon train, Lt. Charles McMaster, 2nd U.S. Cav. was mortally wounded. Comrades of McMaster claim that he was shot while trying to surrender. Mosby's men say he was shot in the heat of combat.
On 23 Sept 1864 in Front Royal, two of Mosby's Rangers were hung, William Thomas Overby and Ranger Carter. Around Overby's neck was placed a sign which read "This will be the fate of Mosby and his Men". Henry C. Rhodes, a 17 year old native of Front Royal was riding on his first raid with Mosby, was captured and dragged down Chester street while tied between two Union Cavalrymen. He was then taken to a nearby field and shot. Thomas E. Anderson was shot at the foot of a hill leading to the Perry Criser house. Two more Rangers, Lucian Love and David Jones were executed in the Brookside section of Front Royal. Total, 4 men shot and two hung that day. Oddly enough, the monument to Mosby's men in nearby Prospect Cemetery was dedicated on the anniversary of the executions, 23 September 1899.
Again, perhaps the executions were payback for Milford or the death of McMaster? I still can't tell you who ordered the deaths of Mosby's men. Gen Merritt, Gen. Torbert, Gen. Custer, or Col. Lowell?
TopKick
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Post by southfork on Nov 18, 2006 20:01:03 GMT -6
The Page Valley success achieved on the second trip of the valley was token. Wickham knew exactly what he was doing and the 6th was almost sacrified that day; The real damage in preventing the flank of Early was already done. I think the executions were payback for a combination of Milford and McMaster (who had apparently given up before being shot). I am convinced that Lowell or Custer did not give the order. It was either Merritt or Torbert. Remember though, there were multiple executions performed at different places in the town by different troops. I doubt they all were within the same authority. I attended a rededication of the Prospect Hill monument several years ago. It was verymoving for the Virginia Cavalier that I am.
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TopKick1833
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Sherlock the Beagle Dog
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Post by TopKick1833 on Nov 18, 2006 20:53:55 GMT -6
Southfork, you bring up good points. So I wonder who determined the writing that is on the roadside marker? What references made their determination? Is the LBHA actively attempting to have the sign amended? Script from another local marker with the same J-9 label: VA-J9 Mosby's Men Near here several of Mosby's men were executed by order of General Custer, September 23, 1864. On the following November 6 Colonel Mosby, in retaliation, ordered the execution of an equal number of Custer's Men, near Berryville. Virginia Conservation Commission, 1950 Location: US 340 (southbound) north of Front Royal The marker that started this series of posts was created in 1927 by Conservation and Development Commission TopKick
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Post by southfork on Nov 19, 2006 1:47:33 GMT -6
In 1927 there were still people alive in Front Royal who were there first hand. It was the firm belief at that time both in Front Royal and with Mosby battalion survivors that Custer was to blame. Remember that Mosby himself reacted to Custer by name in his response at the time. Regardless of the truth, their perception was their reality. I'm not sure there is real value in changing the marker(s) today because they are historically correct in representing the tradition if not the facts. At one time I offered to sponsor new signs out of my own pocket if they let me keep the old ones, but no one was really interested in listening to me. By the way, the last time I drove through (3 weeks ago), I either missed the sign on northbound 340 in town or it was gone. By the way, I consider myself something of an expert on the actions at Milford(Overall) if you're interested in more info on that place.
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Post by alfuso on Nov 20, 2006 7:27:21 GMT -6
Mosby fixated on Custer because his men *told* him that they had been *told* Custer had been *seen* in the area.
Tertiary evidence at best, and Lawyer Mosby knew better. Affter the war, Mosby's men even backed off the claim, but Mosby was obsessed.
I believe thaty Wert covers this in is Custer bio. Custer was in the area, but he didn't give the order. But I doubt he disagreed with the order.
Feelings were still running hot from a skirmish a few weeks earlier in which Federals were set upon by CSA. When men tried to surrender, they were shot down. Wounded were shot where they lay. This came from eye witness reports of survivors (who did so by rolling into bushes or playing dead.)
So Union feelings were running high blood pressure a few weeks later.
It's detailed in some CW magazine or another of mine which is not at all at hand. . .
alfuso
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TopKick1833
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Sherlock the Beagle Dog
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Post by TopKick1833 on Nov 22, 2006 22:46:13 GMT -6
Southfork,
I have been meaning to go by the Milford area and check it out but I have been really busy lately (just got back into town from Kansas a few hours ago). I would be intereted and listening to anything you might have to pass along. I have some information on the actions that occured in the area but I'm always interested in more info. on local history.
TopKick
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Post by southfork on Nov 23, 2006 8:47:50 GMT -6
TopKick, The terrain of the Milford (Overall) area is much the same as it was though it is thick with trees in some places. One can still very easily see the main features of why it was the scene of several engagements during the war. My wife and I have a second home there along the river on the Federal right flank. If you would like to here local stories or visit, let me know how to contact you. My email address is not hidden in my profile. Southfork
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TopKick1833
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Sherlock the Beagle Dog
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Post by TopKick1833 on Nov 25, 2006 12:07:09 GMT -6
Southfork,
Thanks for the invite on the stories and battle info. I'll send you an e mail when I get back from NC next week. I went out this a.m. snooping around and found a Civil War trails sign on the corner of North Royal and 15th st. It has a nice story about the Front Royal hangings and mentioned that Mosby held Custer accountable for the hangings but it is unlikely that Custer ordered the deaths of Mosby's men. The sign did mention that the captive were taken into town and that Torbert was in the vicinity.
The sign on 340 just might be gone? I looked for it this morning but did not see it. I know it was there just a week or so ago because I stopped by to read it after seeing the original post. It should be right next to a gas station entrance.
TopKick
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