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May 13, 2006 23:06:43 GMT -6
Post by mcaryf on May 13, 2006 23:06:43 GMT -6
Probably one of the best known WIKIs is Wikipedia. I visited that recently to read the Custer entry and found in the current account of the LBH that Custer's men were eventually destroyed after running out of ammunition! I thought that went out with the ark!! Anyway I deleted that particular comment without changing the material round it . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Armstrong_Custer#Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn One of the interesting things about WIKIs is to see how long it is before some other proponent of a theory gets round to modifying any changes to fit their own version of events again! Regards Mike
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May 13, 2006 23:09:35 GMT -6
Post by fred on May 13, 2006 23:09:35 GMT -6
Mike--
Huh?
Best wishes, Fred.
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May 14, 2006 11:24:03 GMT -6
Post by q on May 14, 2006 11:24:03 GMT -6
Fred:
At wikipedia.com anyone can revise their supposed dictionary material.... anyone! The last time I Checked this is part of what it said about Custer's Last Stand.
wikipedia.com Custer knew he was outnumbered, though he did not know by how much (probably something on the order of 3 to 1), but despite that knowledge he recklessly split his forces in three parts: one led by Major </wiki/Major> Marcus Reno </wiki/Marcus_Reno>, one by Captain Frederick Benteen </wiki/Frederick_Benteen>, and one by himself. Reno was ordered to attack from south of the village, while Benteen was ordered to go west, scouting for any fleeing Native Americans, while Custer himself went north, in what was intended to be a classical pincer movement. But Reno failed in his action, retreating after a timid charge with the loss of a quarter of his command. Meanwhile, Custer, having located the encampment, requested Benteen to come on for the second time. He sent the message: "Benteen, come on, big village, be quick. Bring packs."
Whoever wrote that had an overactive imagination. None of it is a proven fact. To wit... Custer knew he was outnumbered....he wrecklessly split his forces...Benteen>>>scouting for fleeing indians...classical pincer movement.... ad infinitum....
The writer didn't use objectivity in his/her approach to telling the facts. A more dictionary approach to this is what is desired. An offering that I wrote would be more true and accurate than what that person offered. And it goes something like this...
Custer was outnumbered, (the number of warriors reported was anywhere from 1500 to 10,000). Custer split his forces in three parts: one led by Major Marcus Reno, one by Captain Frederick Benteen and one by himself. Reno was ordered to attack after scouts had witnessed a Sioux war party reported to have been anywhere from 20 to 50 strong in front of their advance. Reno's orders are still controversial to this day. The Reno Court of Inquiry, a court proceeding convened to determine whether or not Reno was at fault only confused the issue more. While several participants testified that Custer ordered Reno to "charge the village". Other witnesses testified that he was ordered to "bring the indians to battle", those indians being the 20 to 50 indians in the Sioux war party previously seen by the scouts. Earlier in the day Benteen had been ordered to go to the "left", in search of some Native Americans. Benteen's actual orders are as controversial as Reno's, and to this day it isn't known what those actual orders were. According to Benteen's testimony at the Reno Court of Inquiry he was "valley hunting" and he thought the orders given to him to be "senseless". Custer and 5 companies went north, the purpose of which still isn't determined. It was thought by some that another Sioux war party had been sighted on the bluffs east of the river. Whether Custer went in pursuit of them or because he wanted a place to view the Reno battle, or for both reasons or others isn't known. Reno meanwhile had crossed the Little Big Horn and hesitated after seeing more indians than he had apparently anticipated to be in front of him. He sent back word by courier to Custer twice apparently questioning his orders of attack. Reno upon not recieving any replies from Custer proceeded to attack the village. Apparently after seeing increasing numbers of warriors, Reno halted several hundred yards in front of the huge village and dismounted into skirmish line formation, and was later forced to the hill now named in his honor, Reno Hill. Several men in Reno's command said they saw Custer and his men on the bluffs to the east before, during and after their charge towards the village. During this time Custer's adjutant sent a message to Benteen the contents of which are still preserved today. It said: "Benteen, come on, big village, be quick, bring pacs. Ps bring pacs."
Of course, if you didn't agree with me, then you could of course go to wikipedia.com and write what you believe happened. Like that person outlined in yellow above did. It's all a happy little merry-go-round of beliefs and not usually something that is truthful. I'm sorry to say.
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May 14, 2006 15:23:01 GMT -6
Post by fred on May 14, 2006 15:23:01 GMT -6
"q"--
Thank you. That's the best explanation I have read & quite frankly I appreciate your time in writing it. Also, I would never argue w/ your synopsis-- even though I may disagree w/ parts of it-- because it was very objective.
Again, thank you.
Best wishes, Fred.
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May 15, 2006 9:44:04 GMT -6
Post by crzhrs on May 15, 2006 9:44:04 GMT -6
Diane (off topic):
Yassu . . . (yes) 100% and I grew up with Greek food (along with American) went to all the Greek festivals and picnics . . . talk about people who liked to party!
It seems when I was a kid the relatives were always getting together and celebrating something . . . now as we've all gone our different routes and the grandparents, parents, aunts & uncles have passed on those times are just a memory . . . but what a memory!!
My spouse is Polish! but she has learned to make spinakopita (almost like Ma's) and we go to the yearling Greek Picnic put on by the church (not that I go, except for weddings and funerals!) The picnics are a reminder of how it use to be when I was a kid and everybody came together for fun, food, dancing, and OUZO!
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May 15, 2006 10:46:28 GMT -6
Post by Diane Merkel on May 15, 2006 10:46:28 GMT -6
Crazy,
Let us know when the rains and floods have stopped up your way, and Fred and I will be there for dinner!
Stay dry!
Diane
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May 15, 2006 11:00:16 GMT -6
Post by crzhrs on May 15, 2006 11:00:16 GMT -6
Still raining . . . but not as hard . . . many back roads in town are washed out or not passable. We live on high ground on a back road but we have had no problems with flooding, water in the basement, or wash outs . . . I think we are having pasta with tuna and cheese sauce. Not Greek, but not bad. Call for take out . . .
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May 15, 2006 11:05:16 GMT -6
Post by Diane Merkel on May 15, 2006 11:05:16 GMT -6
I don't think I can get there for the take-out, but I'm glad to hear that you haven't suffered.
(For our international friends -- Much of the New England region of the USA is experiencing torrential downpours and flooding.)
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May 16, 2006 9:21:26 GMT -6
Post by alfuso on May 16, 2006 9:21:26 GMT -6
crzhrs
I grew up in an Italian family. Great wedding receptions Partied all night, with live bands, mucho food. Long aafter the Bride and Groom had left!
alfuso
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May 16, 2006 9:26:18 GMT -6
Post by alfuso on May 16, 2006 9:26:18 GMT -6
we finally have *some* rain today. But we need it every day for a week or more.
It's gotten so dry that most of my favorite birding spots are almost dust. I'm usually hip deep in various Florida wading birds. And it's part of the reason for the multiple gator attacks in the last 2 weeks. The marshes are low or dry driving the gators to the canals. Low marshes, means low or no food. And, it's mating season. Short tempered gators plus the female gator rarely leaves her nest for 2 months so she needs to feed *now*
alfuso
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May 16, 2006 9:59:31 GMT -6
Post by crzhrs on May 16, 2006 9:59:31 GMT -6
Alfuso:
There is really not much difference between Greeks & Italians . . . both countries in the same beautiful Mediterrean area, same climates, great food, alcohol, same passion . . . I have a number of good pizzanos of Italian heritage and we always have great times together . . .
There must be something about the climate that makes people from the Mediterrean area so "alive"
PS: I've heard about the gators in Florida . . . to many people moving to rural areas and the gators are increasing in population equals bad times for both . . . watch where you step!
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May 17, 2006 12:06:45 GMT -6
Post by Melani on May 17, 2006 12:06:45 GMT -6
Of course, if you didn't agree with me, then you could of course go to wikipedia.com and write what you believe happened. Like that person outlined in yellow above did. It's all a happy little merry-go-round of beliefs and not usually something that is truthful. I'm sorry to say. That's why I don't consider Wikipedia a good source of really factual information, though it might be a jumping-off point in some cases.
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May 17, 2006 12:12:20 GMT -6
Post by Diane Merkel on May 17, 2006 12:12:20 GMT -6
Hi Melani!
I got a voicemail message from Corky. He enjoyed meeting you. I'm glad you were able to make that luncheon.
Best wishes, Diane
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May 19, 2006 2:25:04 GMT -6
Post by mcaryf on May 19, 2006 2:25:04 GMT -6
For our US readers I should say that we have great concern about lack of rain here in many parts of the UK. In the area where I live, just South of London, emergency drought orders are being enacted. This means that the authorities can make it illegal for you to wash your car etc.
Yes I know it is ridiculous and it has rained here almost every day since the drought order was announced. Unfortunately years of plenty have meant that the water companies have not bothered to build more storage facilities or replace the thousands of elderly leaking pipes where most of the water is lost before it gets to the customers.
Still it seems that the old Indian custom of a Raindance, whose modern version is a government water use ban, is still effective at getting the clouds to open.
Regards
Mike
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