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Post by Treasuredude on Nov 16, 2005 18:41:56 GMT -6
The latest (Nov/Dec) issue of True West has a good two page article on John Noonan and Old Nash by Paul Hutton.
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Post by El Crab on Nov 16, 2005 21:18:57 GMT -6
Is John Noonan the one that married the transvestite from Suds Row and ended up shooting himself in a stall after "she" died and was found out?
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Post by ma dawg got et on Nov 17, 2005 4:16:50 GMT -6
el Crab
yes
alfuso
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Post by El Crab on Nov 17, 2005 15:52:16 GMT -6
Old Nash sounds like the name of a horse, but I presume its the, um, "lady" in his life...
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Post by Jim on Nov 17, 2005 17:23:09 GMT -6
It could be a name for his favorite car!?!?!?
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Post by ma dawg got et on Nov 21, 2005 7:43:00 GMT -6
it was a great setup while it lasted. Laundresses made pretty good money; a married man got private, and therefore, slightly larger quarters and often was dismissed from hazardous duties. Two guys do a "set up", pool their money, don't have to worry about children coming along to ruin it all.
Until the "Mrs" kicked off...
alfuso
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Post by El Crab on Nov 21, 2005 12:02:05 GMT -6
It never seemed to me like a setup. I think "she" fooled him and he didn't know she was a he until they were married.
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Post by crzhrs on Nov 21, 2005 14:47:51 GMT -6
< think "she" fooled him and he didn't know she was a he until they were married. >
She/he must have been pretty good to fool him . . . no four o'clock shadow? no deep voice? no hairy arms? did she throw like a girl?
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Post by El Crab on Nov 21, 2005 18:41:17 GMT -6
"She" fooled a soldier before Noonan, apparently.
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Post by elisabeth on Nov 22, 2005 9:57:51 GMT -6
More than one, I think! Doesn't Libbie, in 'Boots and Saddles', mention FOUR husbands? I believe one deserted pretty swiftly after the marriage, but the rest -- interestingly -- seem to have been quite happy about it ...
From Libbie's account, "she" was quite a feminine "woman", apart from the five o'clock shadow; dressing up in her finery for their hops and dances, brilliant at ironing really complicated frills, a gifted and gentle midwife. Fascinating story.
There are similar tales in reverse of women serving as soldiers in the Civil War and not being found out until killed or wounded. More of this going on in the Old West than we think, perhaps!
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Post by El Crab on Nov 22, 2005 19:32:01 GMT -6
It must be remembered that relationships back then were much different than now, and Noonan and all of the other fooled husbands probably didn't get to sample all of the goods beforehand, and I don't think the sexual dynamic between man and wife was exactly the same. Plus, they'd probably "do it" with the lights off.  It seems crazy, but its highly likely "she" kept it a secret until they were official, then was found out. Its also possible, though, that "she" even was able to keep her man happy and in the dark (pun intended) after beginning naughty relations. |
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Post by markland on Nov 23, 2005 12:29:39 GMT -6
For some strange reason, everytime I check this thread I begin humming "Lola".  Billy |
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Post by Scout on Nov 26, 2005 9:41:48 GMT -6
Old Noonan may have not known himself until she died. Surprise, surprise, surprise! The husband who 'ran off' is the one who probably found out the truth about Lola and didn't want to face the music if the regiment found out. That would have been my chose. It appears hundreds of women posed as men during the civil war, many were in the thick of combat. How could you hide that with that number of men around? Some of the soldiers must have known. Anyway, it appears Mr. and Mrs. Noonan were living contently until she died.
Interesting sidenote; How many of you have seen the picture of Thomas McDougall in old age wearing a dress in the Swanson book? [pg. 260] It appears he was a cross dresser. Wow, that kinky seventh! They weren't a boring lot!
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Post by elisabeth on Nov 27, 2005 7:07:23 GMT -6
Scout -- REALLY???!!!? I'm definitely going to have to get that book now!
Has anybody written anything on the McDougall family, do you know? I'd like to know more, not least because of (of course) the Keogh connection. We have it from McDougall himself (Hammer, Custer in 76) that Keogh was carrying a photograph of McDougall's sister when he was killed. It appears McDougall's quite relaxed about the fact, although 19th-century rules should make it quite a big deal. Wonder what to make of that?
McDougall had more than one sister; the likeliest candidate would seem to be Josephine, widow of Col. David Buel, as the Buels and Keogh were frequent guests together at the Sturgis table during the Fort Leavenworth sojourn. Col. Buel was shot one night by a deserter he was trying to arrest, and Mrs. Buel and her two young children had of course to vacate their army quarters and go back east. It appears Keogh takes a leave at about that time, so he may have escorted them. After that, I don't know what happened -- except that she married another of the Buel family in, I believe, 1875. So maybe it's a different sister after all. But it's frustrating not to know!
McDougall's quite stout in most photographs, isn't he? Must be some dress!
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Post by Treasuredude on Nov 27, 2005 8:53:06 GMT -6
Interesting sidenote; How many of you have seen the picture of Thomas McDougall in old age wearing a dress in the Swanson book? [pg. 260] It appears he was a cross dresser. Wow, that kinky seventh! They weren't a boring lot! I haven't seen the book, but are you sure McDougall wasn't dressed up for one of those theatrical plays? |
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