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Post by Tricia on Mar 23, 2005 20:11:08 GMT -6
I know this is probably a very easy toss up, but can someone, with some ease, provide muster roll information for Private John Burkman? When did he enlist--to which company did he belong? I do know he might have committed suicide while eating candy corns ... supposedly he was quite guilty over staying with Dandy while his commanding officer met his fate.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by michigander on Mar 24, 2005 4:57:59 GMT -6
On duty with the pack train. In the hilltop fight. Born in January 10, 1839, Alleghany County, Pennsylvania. But he once stated to be born in Germany. Prior the Civil War, was a teamster for William Bent. Enlisted fifth Missouri Volounteers and engaged in Wilson's Creek. In General Sibley expedition 1863, and with Stanley one in the Yellowstone, 1873. With Custer on the Black Hills from july to august 1874. First enlistment 7th Cavalry Company A, 1870. Re-enlisted 1875, September in Dakota by Lt Cahloun. In the Sioux expedition 1876 and Nez Perce 1877 with Sturgis. Discharged may 1879 for disability at Fort Lincoln. Died in Billings, Montana, November 10, 1925 of gunsgot from his own hand. Before Death, he lived for a while in the soldier's home in Los Angeles and Washington, but was discharged april 1923. some links for news about him: pages.prodigy.com/custer/burk.htmHope was usefull.
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Post by Tricia on Mar 25, 2005 19:01:25 GMT -6
Just to clarify--checking the muster rolls avaliable at The Friends of the Little Bighorn website, Private Burkman was "detached" from L company and assigned to the pack train (as was earlier mentioned). Apparently, Custer could always see something rather peculiar about the man, and might not have trusted (this is probably not the best word) him to see "real" battle situations ...
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by michigander on Mar 26, 2005 10:05:26 GMT -6
I don't think so. "Old Neutriment (1934) also details the day-to-day life of the enlisted man. In addition, it provides what is unquestionably the most personal account of the Custers that exists. As history, Old Neutriment is often uNreliable, because it is colored by the unshaken devotion that its author, John Burkman, gave to the Custers." "Of John Burkman, Elizabeth Custer wrote, "His horizon was encompassed by two horses, some dogs and one yellow-haired officer." Perhaps modesty would not permit Mrs. Custer to admit herself to John Burkman's horizon, yet she was certainly a part of it. Second only to Elizabeth Custer in his admiration of her husband, Burkman, who could neither read nor write, devoted his life to the Custers. In his later years he had but one friend, D. D. O'Donnell, who wrote Burkman's reminiscences in note form and turned to Glendolin Damon Wagner, a novelist living in Billings, Montana, to write the book. Fortunately, Mrs. Wagner remained true to the spirit and letter of old John Burkman.
"The honor of himself and his country weighed lightly in the scale against the `glorious?'name of Geo(rge) A. Custer, the hardship and danger to his men, as well as probable loss of life were worthy but little consideration when dim visions of an `eagle' or even a `star' floated before the excited mind of our Lieut. Colonel."
""Take good care of the horses, Burkman. We may need them before morning". These were the last words of General Custer, on the night before the now justly famous "Last Fight," on June 25, 1876, on the Little Big Horn, says The Billings Gazette. " When Custer returned for the little scouting trip he himself took his orderly, he called his officers together for a conference". Custer said, "We are discovered. I had not intended to strike until tomorrow, but unless we attack first, we shall be attacked".
"He gave them orders that all lead horses and to stay with the pack train". "Stay with the pack train, Burkman, and take good care of the horses," were his orders to me. And it was the first time he ever left me behind in a fight. Those were his last words to me. And the next thing I knew of Custer and those five companies, was the news of the massacre".
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Post by Tricia on Mar 26, 2005 21:25:09 GMT -6
Michigander--
I would recommend that you re-read the website which you so kindly gave me in your above post. In LBC's words, there was something odd, or perhaps, merely simple about Burkman, that gave Custer cause to keep him with the pack train-rather than to assign him with his company (L) that faced heavy action at LBH. This is not at all meant as a negative against the private, but simply a personality quirk.
I am quite aware of Burkman's loyalty to the general and his wife ...
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by michigander on Mar 27, 2005 5:39:10 GMT -6
Rice, I knew, I don't need to re-read the link. You said: "supposedly he was quite guilty over staying with Dandy while his commanding officer met his fate." With my answers I just meant that I don't believed this happened. Or, better, I don't believe that he had some fault toward the General - it's true also that he spent his life till his death to regret he wasn't with his Commander. That Custer could have assigned him at the packs because he was not the best soldier, this of course could be. I agree. However, I add as an opinion of mine that maybe, one Burkman could have made better than other highly respected officiers. At least for his loyalty...no?
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Post by Tricia on Mar 27, 2005 14:31:03 GMT -6
Michigander--
I think we may be speaking around the same thing. I think Private Burkman had a sizable amount of "survivor's guilt' regarding the action at LBH. He sure didn't harbor ill will towards his former CO.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by michigander on Mar 27, 2005 16:31:17 GMT -6
agreed.
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Post by Mike Nunnally on Jun 9, 2005 7:05:45 GMT -6
Captain McLean,
Concerning John Burkman and the book...''Old Neutriment''...I think the book is suspect, while author Glendolin Wagner relies on the O'Donnell's relationship with the old striker, some of it appears to be fiction....she mentions scout Billy Cross and the battle of the Little Big Horn, but there is no such person...the name ''Billy Cross'' is a fictitious name with its roots in one of those crazy sole survivor tales that was originally published in the NEW YORK HERALD in the early 1900's...I think this is a dead give away on the book's reliability.....while much of it may be true... Wagner's research may be questionable.
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Scout
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Post by Tricia on Jun 9, 2005 7:43:07 GMT -6
Captain McLean, Concerning John Burkman and the book...''Old Neutriment''...I think the book is suspect, while author Glendolin Wagner relies on the O'Donnell's relationship with the old striker, some of it appears to be fiction....she mentions scout Billy Cross and the battle of the Little Big Horn, but there is no such person...the name ''Billy Cross'' is a fictitious name with its roots in one of those crazy sole survivor tales that was originally published in the NEW YORK HERALD in the early 1900's...I think this is a dead give away on the book's reliability.....while much of it may be true... Wagner's research may be questionable. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Scout I tend to believe you, Scout. By the way, that's Colonel McLean .... And darn if that Custer didn't get my cousin's table! Regards, LMC
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Post by Mike Nunnally on Jun 9, 2005 13:40:23 GMT -6
Col. McLean,
YO! One other comment on Burkman....this is sure to stir some people up....the famous photo of Custer sitting in a chair, in front of his tent, along with several Indians and one white man, well the man standing has been labeled as Noonan, it's not,.....it's Burkman. There is a picture of Noonan standing with Custer and the shot bear...look closely....these two photos were taken at roughly the same time...and maybe the same day. The man id'd as Noonan in the bear photo looks nothing like the man in front of the tent picture....now look the picture of Burkman up in the Swanson book and hold it closely to the other photo....it is WITHOUT DOUBT JOHN BURKMAN....I paint portraits and this is 100 percent guaranteed...this picture has been mislabeled for years......What think ye?
Somebody throw down.
Scout
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Jun 9, 2005 16:31:58 GMT -6
Ok Scout, just so folks know what they're laying their money on, here's the pictures you refer to: #1/ The picture you say shows Burkman (standing left): #2/ The picture showing Noonan (second from right): Having peered at them with a magnifier, I'd lay my money on you being in the right of it - but who'll bet against it? Incidentally Scout, which of your sources ID's the #1 picture as showing Noonan? Another point - I think you're right about the two above pictures being taken on the same expedition - and that has to be the Black Hills Expedition of '74, with the pictures being by W. H. Illingworth. Confusingly, Frost and Ambrose caption picture #1 as being from the Yellowstone Expedition of '73. Well spotted! Maybe this site should establish a photo ID section - there are some pretty nifty practitioners of the art hereabouts! Regards, George
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Post by Mike Nunnally on Jun 9, 2005 19:07:47 GMT -6
Thanks General! I have seen the first picture labeled Noonan several places...ok, now I gotta dig through all of the Custer books and mags to find...although one is ''Exploring with Custer'' by Gafe & Horsted...by way, the photo quality in that book is exceptional. But there are several others though....but Burkman makes perfect sense. Frost made a mistake...Ambrose got a lot of things wrong and quite often shot from the hip....on his LBH stuff, that is..don't know about his other stuff.
Anyway, I stand by my proclamation....because the man IS Burkman. He even fits the description of him...the ill kept & rumpled appearance. I could be wrong..but I ain't.
Scout
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Post by Mike Nunnally on Jun 9, 2005 19:13:16 GMT -6
Gafe and Horsted have the photo dated in the book as...Aug. 7, 1874.
Scout
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jun 9, 2005 20:18:42 GMT -6
Leyton, are you really a cousin of THE McLean?
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