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Post by rosebud on Aug 3, 2012 20:07:01 GMT -6
You see Dan. We are talking about different books. I gave Custer the book Participants of the LBH. This book is about individuals at the battle. There is no way I could give a book that has not been written.
Another question for you, now that you know that Fred did not want me to give Custer the book.
................................................................................................... Don't waste your time and mine. They wouldn't like it; it deals only with the truth Fred ...................................................................................................
Who is they?....It can only refer to Indians. How do I know this for sure? Easy, I made it perfectly clear the book was going to the Indians. Fred responded to this and nothing else. You guys can't give him a pass on this one.
What is the big deal of me giving my book to an Indian? Its my book. If Fred or anyone else thinks that I gave it to him because I don't like the book, they are crazy.
Insults are a two way street. I was gone for 1/2 of a year and QC was having these outbursts without my help.
But I would be willing to do my share. Rosebud
Here is an example of QC
RED DIRT: Multiple Choice Question. What is it that best describes your ability to post on this matter?
A- You cannot read or speak the English Language B- You have a block of cement where your brains should be C- You are a complete idiot D- All of the above
CLUE: THE ANSWER IS D ALL OF THE ABOVE
Sound familiar? Unlike Red Dirt, I don't sit back and take it.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 4, 2012 5:42:21 GMT -6
Justin, I agree with Chuck and Dan, the comment about Fred’s book flooding E Bay was below the belt, it had nothing to do with the subject in hand, I have always read your posts on both boards, there are times when you get a bit salty, but there was no need to cross the line with these types of remarks. The segment of what you posted about Chuck is just that a segment, I suppose if you read the whole thread it would not seem that bad, Reddirt can take it and also dish it out, but as Dan said you seem to be on a mission since you returned, a mission hurt people’s feelings, why?.
Ian.
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Post by justvisiting on Aug 4, 2012 7:01:47 GMT -6
Sheesh, I stay away for a few days and all hell breaks lose!
First. Rosebud, I thought it evident that Fred was talking about the audience, in its entirety, for the book and not simply Indians. The pat on the back comment from Fred is, I suppose, his way of saying that he doesn't believe that the Indian tactics on 06/25/1876 were anything more than adequate just as the army's tactics that day were less than adequate. That believe alone will cause angst among the revisionist who believe that Sitting Bull was the Sioux equivalent to Clausewitz while Crazy Horse was the forerunner to von Manstein.
Second. Quincannon and Rosebud, would you please get a room and take with you a couple bottles of booze and two guns and decide what to do in private?
Third. Fred, when will you post pre-order information so that those who want your book can pre-order?
Fourth. When the book arrives, it will have to go into the "To Be Read" stack as I have five David Glantz Eastern Front books (the Smolensk two-volume set and the Stalingrad trilogy) to work through as well as Lundstrom's The First Team and the Guadalcanal Campaign plus Pfanz's books on the first two days of Gettysburg plus Willert's LBH Diary. They're just the ones I recall I need to read.
Dan and Ian and the rest of the folks who've been behaving well: Well done!
JV
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Post by rosebud on Aug 4, 2012 7:50:57 GMT -6
Justin, I agree with Chuck and Dan, the comment about Fred’s book flooding E Bay was below the belt, it had nothing to do with the subject in hand, I have always read your posts on both boards, there are times when you get a bit salty, but there was no need to cross the line with these types of remarks
How is that crossing the line? If less than 10 people, (I think I know what single digit means) and those are Fred's words, Just so we are on the same page I will start over....
If less than 10 people like the book. I can assume it will be on sale on EBay real cheap. That is not a low blow. That is supply and demand.
But once again even that is off subject. I never mentioned his new book, so how is his new book relevant to anything? It isn't.
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Post by fred on Aug 4, 2012 8:20:10 GMT -6
Dan—
As always, thank you for your kind words, but more, for your always intelligent understanding. QC and Plainsman… that goes for you both, as well. My thanks.
Now, let me try to bed this thing down once and for all.
The word “hypocrisy” was used—by Queenie, I believe—and I agree with its application. As usual, Rosebud jumps to conclusions, then blames someone else for doing the same thing, never considering and always ignoring the context in which things were said.
Nowhere—and of course, he ignores it—do I say Indians, any Indians, would not be able to understand anything I write. You cannot find the word, “Indians” or “Indian,” in my sentence. Rosebud, of course, can because he is prescient beyond our understanding. As for Chief Custer, again, anyone looking at that first book can see where I drew all my research from and will also notice there are a good number of instances where individuals—not having written a book or an article—made contributions. If Rosebud was so all-fired in love with the local tribes, then maybe he should have offered to contribute. Caveats abound in the book—see “Red Cloud,” as “BC” tried to point out and as Rosebud kept evading/avoiding just so he could “prove” his ludicrous point. Typical… just like this.
And when I say the new book will sell in single digits, it is because idiots like him would never buy it—number one—and even if he did, he would go into the thing with every predisposition imaginable. So as far as I am concerned, people like him should just stay away from whatever I do, because there will never be a reasonable, non-contentious, thoughtful, intelligent discussion. He and his ilk will always enter the first page on the defensive and I am not interested in uninformed or biased criticism. I am interested in appealing to an intelligent, informed, curious audience, not a bunch of buffoons who already have all the answers. It then becomes a waste of money and time.
Again, I am designing the new book as a “military” and “timing” analysis, not a storybook about the LBH. As an example… I do not even discuss Reno’s retreat, other than a mention. I find no military value, no military lessons to be learned from it. It happened… Reno retreated… and every Tom, Dick, and Harry has written about it. The book ends with the pullback from Weir Peaks and doesn’t get into the fighting of the 26th. Why? Because basically, it was a static defense… and we all know it.
When I submitted the original manuscript, it was 162,000 words, with more than 1,800 footnotes, and 53 pages of timing data. I am re-doing it, and have already trimmed the word-count by more than 13,000, simply because I found it had less to do with the specific subjects than I intended.
Now… just to address another one of Rosebud’s fictional boondoggles he wants people to believe—my supposed sloughing-off of Indian accounts. The references on the timing charts include some 850 separate individual references, obviously, many of the duplicated, i. e., Varnum, Wallace, et al. One could break them down into three categories: white men, red men, and historians. To make sure I got the timing as close to “perfect” as I could, I essentially ignored the “historian” category and those contributions represent only 5.2% of the total. And I limited that even further by including only Richard Fox—for his archaeological contributions; Greg Michno—for his voluminous Indian accounts, some of which I could not access; Kingsley Bray—for his work on probably the most important Indian in the fight, Crazy Horse; and lastly, John Stands In Timber—because he was probably the best interpreter of Indian accounts of the Custer fighting.
Of the remaining 850± references, 31.3% were Indian accounts. That includes none from the 24th through the divide crossing, or from Weir Peaks back to Reno Hill, one at the beginning of the charts, the other at the end. So for the meat of the battle the Indian accounts would be even higher than the 31.3%. Looking at all that, I might think I have a fairly decent representation of the red man in my work. And as for the “truth” business, I do not candy-coat anything in that work, including the fact the Indians were caught with their pants down, or the fact they took their own sweet time reacting, or the fact they were a disheveled mob, winning because of numbers and because they were almost forced to win. They won; that is a compliment enough.
So, again, I will state… this is hardly the kind of work someone like Rosebud would want to read. It is unbiased; it is highly detailed and very “technical”—as far as that word can be used; it shows Custer’s mistakes, and at the same time does not condemn the man. If that bridles the red man, tough s**t. If it bridles the Custerphiles, tough s**t. And I will again throw down the gauntlet: prove me wrong (once it sees the light of day, of course). Then again, there is enough of the timing on these boards and the others…. Just give it a shot; but do so without making things up, like some over there try to do.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by rosebud on Aug 4, 2012 9:57:35 GMT -6
Think I will give him Fred's book and have him pass it around on the Res to see what they think. I will have them write any notes they like or don't like and send them to Fred
Later Rosebud For those of you that don't know...Res means Reservation, Indian Reservation. No mistake we are talking about Indians
Don't waste your time and mine. They wouldn't like it; it deals only with the truth Fred
No way in hell this can be mistaken as your new book. You know darn well that I don't have a copy of a book not in print.
Your senility is getting to you. Nothing in the statement above trashed you or your book in any way shape or form. It is all in your imagination.
And as you damn well know, I am one who happens to agree with your time line. Maybe not 100% but most of it.
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