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Post by d o harris on May 17, 2006 17:32:28 GMT -6
I am a computer illiterate, nearly. My children gave me a new computer, etc., et. al. for my birthday. Does that mean I have a new IP number? That I could have set up two identities with different IPs? Or is this information classified?
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 17, 2006 18:10:20 GMT -6
WE at the NSA have taken care of everything, and as soon as you clean up your office and upgrade the video software for our camera in the lightstand, we'll tell you your new IP number.
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Post by markland on May 17, 2006 18:44:44 GMT -6
I am a computer illiterate, nearly. My children gave me a new computer, etc., et. al. for my birthday. Does that mean I have a new IP number? That I could have set up two identities with different IPs? Or is this information classified? D O, you should be cool. To be sure, you can do the following: BE SURE TO PRINT THESE INSTRUCTIONS OUT At the START button (bottom left corner) press it. Then select "RUN" When the window pops up, type in the word (without quotation marks) "CMD" Hit the "enter" key. Your screen will go black and all of a sudden you are back in DOS-land! Type in the command (at the cursor without quotation marks): "IPCONFIG" and then hit the enter key. Write down the info displayed. Type the word, "EXIT" (need I say without the quotation marks or hitting "Enter" after the command?) The reason I harp on expressly doing what I say is that one time, I spent three hours on the phone with a high-priced tech repeating the same commands. They didn't work. Finally I had him do a screen print and found out that were I said "ENTER", he was typing out ENTER. ARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH Last I heard, that tech was driving a bus in Phoenix. Billy
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Post by El Crab on May 17, 2006 21:11:42 GMT -6
Now, are those IP numbers handy and edifying or what? For the person in charge, they are invaluable. For the nosy forum goer, they are not needed. As for the Zip! Zing! that Godfrey(?) mentions, it had nothing to do with different powder loads from the same weapon. It had everything to do with what firearm was being fired at them. The particular mention of the different sounds stems from Indians later firing one of the many captured carbines at the soldiers on Reno Hill. After Custer was destroyed (unbeknownst to the soldiers with Reno and Benteen), they noted that Zing! was a lot more common. Upon learning Custer's fate, they then understood why the Zing! became much more common. Zip! being the sound of the bullet from the average Indian rifle, and Zing! being the distinct sound of a bullet fired from a Springfield carbine. I could have them backwards, but I think the Zing! is the Army carbine bullet's voice. Or it could be the name of a laundry detergent.
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Post by Diane Merkel on May 17, 2006 21:19:57 GMT -6
DO, I can't answer you because Dark Cloud will turn me into the NSA. That Boulder-hippie routine is just a cover. If you knew who he really was, you would want a second identity with a different IP.
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 18, 2006 9:47:19 GMT -6
The "average Indian rifle?" Didn't they supposedly vary from Sharp's .50 to the Henry to flintlocks? Admitedly, it's been weeks since anyone fired a high powered rifle at me, although my hearing isn't what it once was, but my recollection - always suspect - is that a "zing" suggests more speed than a mere "zip."
It was Varnum who chatted this up. Since only the Henry's and newer weapons had known loads, and the Indians weren't precise and were cheap in powder use, I'd think the 70 powder load would have been the speediest shot out there, so it's not entirely unlikely. But who knows? Varnum HAD said that he had supposed everyone had 70 loads, because he and his guys, whoever they were, had them.
Boulder "hippies" do not drink coffee at Starbucks. Boulder "hippies" drink coffee at Peabody's and in the checkout line at Abercrombie and Fitch. You can see all this on the real time satellite feed. Oh.....I forgot. You don't have one. Watch where you put your coffee. You've nearly spilled it twice. Honestly. People.......
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Post by El Crab on May 18, 2006 18:07:44 GMT -6
The "average Indian rifle?" Didn't they supposedly vary from Sharp's .50 to the Henry to flintlocks? Admitedly, it's been weeks since anyone fired a high powered rifle at me, although my hearing isn't what it once was, but my recollection - always suspect - is that a "zing" suggests more speed than a mere "zip." It was Varnum who chatted this up. Since only the Henry's and newer weapons had known loads, and the Indians weren't precise and were cheap in powder use, I'd think the 70 powder load would have been the speediest shot out there, so it's not entirely unlikely. But who knows? Varnum HAD said that he had supposed everyone had 70 loads, because he and his guys, whoever they were, had them. Zip, Zing, Zsa Zsa. It matters not, in this particular discussion. The different sound they heard was mentioned because it was the carbine round's "voice"it is, not because the powder load had anything to do with it. The reason the different sounds were mentioned, was to note that the Indians now had more Springfield carbines. The mention of the different sound is to identify the use of captured carbines by Indians. It has nothing to do with Varnum's contention that they had .45-70 rounds, rather than .45-55 ammunition. The account itself says something about the sound making them take notice. It might make that Zip! or Zing! due to higher powder load, but it was mentioned because it was later realized that the sound was a clue to the Custer battalion's demise. I suppose I could look up Varnum's exact comment, and it would be responsible of me to do so. And I probably will, eventually.
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Post by AZ Ranger on May 18, 2006 18:07:51 GMT -6
I would say it depends on distance from the firearm also. A 55 gr powder charged bullet passing by and shot from close range will be traveling faster than a 70 gr powder charged bullet passing by and shot from 500 yards away if the bullets are the same weight.
If you hear a thud its close. If your partner hears the thud and you don't answer ....
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Post by maaloxmya19 on Jun 1, 2006 2:19:32 GMT -6
Maps: the best you have to ASSEMBLE YOURSELF:
1. You get a REAL good topographic map in several copies. ALL the possible twists & windings of the river show up.
2. Plot the particular couse the River followed on Macgwire's map.
3. If you have a 1000 hours or so, transcribe the BIG map in Scott & Fox, who discouraged other Researchers "stealing" their work by having 1 map with finds numbered, 1 with burials, neither with Topography. Look up each find & use color codes for types of ammo: it is amazing how their view of who was firing what bullet, leaps out at you.
_ But the NUMBER of Indians: are based on finding 1/3rd of Soldier guns. They ASSUME the same ratio holds for the Sioux, but 90% of Soldier positions were sampled yet most Sioux bullets seem to be from the ridges parallel to "Battle ridge"
... outside the Monument ... meaning there, are MORE Sioux .
-------- Conclusions FROM Maps:
I've been thinking, since ... the way the Indians deployed tents may just be MOSQUITO AVOIDANCE.
After all, S. Bull assures them GOD SAYS no soldiers will reach the camp, while Crazy Horse being there (he once killed a friend's wife because she was of another tribe & so fair game - to him) encouraged other tribes to SCATTER a bit: -- the PRIME locales to Camp, have water to drink, but are not in a lowlying swamp: ie: the 2 streams coming out of the SW Hills & 2 places where the river is NOT in the swampy/timbered Valey center (1) where it pokes out to the south where Reno was -- the Hunkpapa area (2) low hills just North of the Monument -- NOT ford D but beyond it, call it "FORD K" for Kellog's body most often described as being there.
Custer's orders repeatedly stressed surrounding ALL the Indians. To get North is needful. So he crosses Calhoun ridge into the Valley beyond, engages a few scouts at the Spring there, & follows that down to the Cheyenne Camp -- which, means 2 things:
1. To Bouyer: since The Cheyenne traditionally were the "Point" of any Sioux movement, this meant S. Bull intended to go WEST to the Crow reservation & kill ... Bouyer's family. -- So he tells Curly he will NOT be leaving but will stay & die, please tell Terry they are coming for the Reservation
2. Custer: he has not only found the North edge, HE KNOWS THE CHEYENNE MUST TALK PEACE IF HE ENTERS THEIR MEDICINE TENT - - as in Kansas, where he stormed in and was found by the amazed people of both sides, confronting their medicine Man (who reportedly had a pistol up Custer's nose, but could not fire as that would profane the Sacred Medicine Bundle. PS long after Washita).
Thus the sudden MAD DASH foiled by, what? the Guard of the Cheyenne Medicine tent, and a Sioux friend keeping him company, and several others.
If Custer is shot at MTC, they'd try to rejoin Reno, who is now Senior.
But if VERY far North, no.
Why call for Benteen?: well, at the Washita, there were THOUSANDS of Warriors who just watched as Custer left with a few dozen women tied to the outside of his wagons. There was a whole STRING of camps, of which he had overwhelmed ONLY the smallest. The one thing that nearly crossed him up was his Ammunition - - they nearly got it.
Peace came to Kansas NOT with every Indian dead or surrounded -- but when they got discouraged when their "Medicine went bad" (Indians are REALLY hard to find, but then Custer "found" the main camp every other day for over a week -- probably because he had spies -- he was observed tallking to Mahwissa -- in the camp).
CAPTURING AMMUNITION WOULD VERIFY S.BULL WAS FAVORED OF THE GODS. As it was, he lost Prestige BIG TIME because they missed the Buffalo, they got Surprised by Reno, had to strike tents AGAIN (if briefly) in the Afternoon (probably the final run down E-Company ravine -- when the Flags stared moving at them, women took down the tents (seen by Reno's people) then turned to, reportedly, stoning the Cheyenne WarLeader who was late & arriving just then).
So APPEARENCES mean everything in Politics, and this is how Custer settled a War before -- ( & it worked, if mostly by the accident of Terry's Mounted infantry's shovels causing them to veer off going down the Valley & go up into the Mountains & "eat Pony" as the tribes said.
See: "its the Economy, stupid". -- in Politics. For Indians, Wealth is: horses horses horses. Although for Warriors, Ammo comes a close second.
Remember Custer telling the Arikara to grab horses & then GET OUT ? They, the pathetic village-dwelling FARMERS of the Plains, got to parade around "Sitting Bull's HORSE" after the Battle.
THE SIOUX, thought they'd LOST. They probably lost more horses to their own fire, than Custer's, but to them, it was a matter of LUCK.
Sitting Bull was thier AYATOLLAH, but his Phone line to GOD went dead that day.
All this from a LARGE Camp? (not needing to be Huge in number, just Scattered). Well, yes.
SO: Re Custer: I figure he threw ALL caution away with a Dash at the Cheyenne medicine tent (is that Bobtail Horse's story? my notes are all packed). That was a mistake, caus he got shot. That his unit depended so much on him NOT being hurt, has to be number two. They were just as much in thrall of Custer's Luck as the Sioux were in S. Bull's.
BOTH found their fragile constructs, shattered like Glass.
This is why we study this: if Custer was just a notch in S. Bulls hatchet -- but S. Bull's force broke up. BOTH got destroyed.
It's like Gordon & the Mahdi at Khartoum.
Save Gordon DID bleed the Mahdi a lot; but Custer got POLITICAL success from listening to Boody Knife (claiming to be S. Bull's Elder Half-Brother) & the various Squaws associated with Custer, including 1 of the 2 women who spied for him in KANSAS being KNOWN to be at the Camp (I've always thought Thompson witnessed Custer meeting his lady Spies), possibly even the PORIVO (literally: Chief-Woman).
No one else ever had Indians so close in his councils -- gosh: RENO reported to Bloody Knife, & PANICed when BK was shot, because Reno was supposed to take BK's orders: BK was in Charge ! That's the way I read it. I think BK -- or the PORIVO, who may have been organizing the Women in the Village -- hoked this all up to expose S.Bull as a RELIGIOUS Fraud, by exposing Prophecies as false.
The key is Charlie Reynold's words "we've been setting this up for 2 years". From BEFORE THE BATTLE.
Reynolds & BK clearly told others they expected to DIE (BK OFTEN, Reynolds in deeds, that is, told to get his thumb wound treated or DIE -- he chose to go with Custer). A third scout, Bouyer, said Custer was going to get Dead & he, Bouyer, was NOT going to stay, but Leave before the Battle -- & said so OFTEN ... _-- but then stayed, which is why I consider ONLY a threat to his family suffices to change his mind, which is something he saw AFTER the Spring, so the Cheyenne were not visible until they reached the Cemetery or LSH, so they are WAY north (Call this the FAR NORTH theory).
BK let S. Bull gather hordes until S.Bull thought them SO Numerous all US troops would run away (which both Gibbon & Crook did) thus: the Sioux Camp would NEVER be attacked, so S.Bull PROPHECIZED that they would be safe (the only troops to get near the Village would be dead) -- then, BK brought in a man to DISPROVE THE PROPHECY by attacking DESPITE overwhelming odds : who would attack ANYWAY? :
CUSTER: both sap, hero, tool, and Victim all in one.
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Post by mcaryf on Jun 1, 2006 3:55:02 GMT -6
Just to return this thread to my original topic, I can tell you that I have now obtained the McElfresh map very reasonably via Amazon. It is a very good looking map and I am enjoying using it with my other recent acquisition "Lakota Noon" and anticipate coming back with a few questions shortly.
Regards
mike
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Post by maaloxmya19 on Jun 1, 2006 4:05:32 GMT -6
PS for BULLETS/Guns: you gotta read Scott & Fox:
45/70 in a carbine (45/55 gun) visibly split their cases & on a map, clump with distinctively Indian relics. NO chance their conclusions are wrong.
I spent weeks plotting all bullet/case types with colored dots (out of 6000+ finds they only double-plotted 1, WOW). The result spread on my kitchen floor showed most positions clearly Indian, or Soldier, with few overlaps & a DISTINCT mix of weapons for each. Pistols Very rare (the notable confused area is South Skirmish line, & it looks like the LSH barricade was good enough cover they tried lofting Arrows into it).
Springfields jammed FAR more often than other guns, but it was the first with a "soft" jam that could be field-cleared: most others' jams require factory rebuild until circa 1900, which is what made battles last a day or two & stop: e.g. by the end of Gettysburg, most guns were inoperable -- 1871+ Springfields were supposedly the first guns to just keep going & going ...
On Reno Hill, the number of guns NOT the short-range Carbine, & thus good for anti-sniper use, was depressingly small. On the other hand, most Officers had them (French?), so there was an awareness of the problem.
A big Problem is Scott & Fox count the Civil-War Muzzleloaders as all one weapon per size of bullet, because they cannot tell if several bullets were fired from the same gun, so they assume they ALL were.
This seriously undercounts the best Hunting rifle, & the best shots -- [glow=red,2,300]LIFETIME PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS [/glow] when it is obvious these accurate long range weapons ripped Custer apart, but Reno, first, fought with only the fastest to arrive & therefore mostly Young men, then, later, the Old Men COULD have come against Reno, but, even Sitting Bull was conselling the Warriors to 'let the Soldiers go'.
Thus the 2nd day's battle was fighting ONLY the Young Hotheads.
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Post by fred on Jun 2, 2006 9:51:04 GMT -6
What?! "Fred to earth! Fred to earth! We've spotted something here! Hello!
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Post by bubbabod on Jun 2, 2006 10:25:14 GMT -6
Fred, et al, in some earlier thread we talked about a huge fold-out map entitled "Litttel Bighorn Battlefield Map, Archeological Finds and Historical Locations produced by Mike Bonafede, 1999. It is a huge satellite map that reads: Photograph is composited from satellite images taken in August, 1996, courtesy of the USGC. Contours (in white) are in 100 foot intervals and are based on the 1967 Crow Agency and Crow Agency SE USGC topographical maps. The huge map is colorcoded to show wherehuman remains were found, color coded to show soldier cartridges, soldier bullets, Indian cartridges and Indian bullets. On the reverse side are topo maps of LBH-Reno creek Area, which covers from the Crow's Nest to west of the battlefield, and other smaller maps of the battlefield. The topo maps might not be as detailed as you're looking for, but this is the best map I've ever seen, particularly with details of where artifacts were found. If memory serves, I bought this map a few years ago at the Garry Owen museum.
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Post by mcaryf on Sept 28, 2006 4:44:17 GMT -6
I recently re-read this thread as I am still interested in more detailed maps of the LBH vicinity. Does anybody know if the detailed satellite map referred to by Bubbabod is still available via the Gary Owen museum and if so do they mail to far off places like the UK? Elisabeth has also told me about a CD having Montana topographical maps: tinyurl.com/f8dsf One of my other hobbies is computer military simulations where you can usually get terrain maps with facilities to show line of sight e.g. what other areas can you see from any position typically they do this by shading out of sight areas. Does anybody have the map CD mentioned above or any other one that might have a tool to indicate lines of sight. I am interested in the whole area from the Crow's Nest to beyond LSH so I can see how far off Custer might have spotted Benteen on the back trail, what could Weir see from his hill etc etc. Since I am unlikely to get to visit LBH in the near future this might be the next best thing. Regards Mike
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Post by Diane Merkel on Sept 28, 2006 7:34:44 GMT -6
Mike, I can't answer your other questions, but the Custer Battlefield Museum's e-mail address is info@custermuseum.org. They have a note for internationals to contact them about shipping rates overseas, so I would guess they will send it to you if they still carry it. They list some books for sale but no maps. See www.custermuseum.org. Diane
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