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Post by D Beal on Jun 17, 2005 10:27:43 GMT -6
I haven't read the detailed description of Tom Custer's treatment before, but I did read that Rain in the Face had threatened to cut out his heart and eat it. Was there speculation that maybe Rain was as good as his word?
D.B.
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Post by Tricia on Jun 17, 2005 11:39:27 GMT -6
I haven't read the detailed description of Tom Custer's treatment before, but I did read that Rain in the Face had threatened to cut out his heart and eat it. Was there speculation that maybe Rain was as good as his word? D.B. The poets certainly thought so! But it probably isn't true: Rain was at that age that separated warriors from tribal elders. Darn! Another Custer legend shot to hell .... Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by D Beal on Jun 17, 2005 15:08:01 GMT -6
Rain was close enough to the battle to be wounded. Why would Tom Custer be mutilated worse than other troopers or officers? Somebody with a personal ax to grind maybe...why not Rain in the Face?
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Post by Tricia on Jun 19, 2005 8:59:38 GMT -6
Rain was close enough to the battle to be wounded. Why would Tom Custer be mutilated worse than other troopers or officers? Somebody with a personal ax to grind maybe...why not Rain in the Face? D-- There was certainly a grudge match on between RIF and TWC--and there was that well known threat. But from what I understand, it seems that TWC got the worst of it because he was probably the last man alive, or very close to it, though I can't remember where I began to discern that information. We must also recall that at LBH, many of the Seventh had taken on quite different appearances than how they looked when at the fort--beards, tans, less than regulation uniforms, many with short hair--scraggly. If nobody could recognize "Long Hair," how were they to figure out which was Tom? I've included a quote from Rain-in-the-Face (a sober one, ca 1904) which seems to bear this out: "Many lies have been told about me. Some say I killed the chief, and others say that I cut out the heart of his brother, Tom Custer, because he caused me to be imprisoned. Why, in that fight the excitement was so great that we scarcely recognized our nearest friends. Everything was done like lightening. After the battle we young men were chasing horses all over the prairie; and if any mutilating was done, it was by the old men." (From "In His Brother's Shadow," Bird, pg. 172) Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by nancy on Jun 23, 2005 23:26:53 GMT -6
at the gene autry western heritage museum in los angeles a few years back there was a custer special exhibit that displayed the lock of custer's hair that had been cut off on the battlefield after his death, and sent to libbie. she postively identified it as belonging to her husband, according to the letter of authentication displayed with the exhibit. i recall it as being a very unusual color, and much redder than i had expected. has anyone else seen this lock of hair, and any comments as to it's authenticity??
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Post by Scout on Jun 24, 2005 7:27:49 GMT -6
Nancy,
Good question. It probably is Custer's hair...Libbie herself described her husband's hair color as strawberry blonde.....so there was apparently red in it. I think the Custer with blond hair thing has been overdone by Hollywood....I mean blonde's really do have more fun...don't they?
As far as Tom Custer is concerned...someone really took some wrath out on him....Rain might have done this had he seen the body....or Tom may have been the last man putting up a fight, but someone really went overboard on mutilating him...the question is why?
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Jun 24, 2005 11:37:36 GMT -6
Hi Scout and Nancy, The trichological history of Custer is an interesting one - and as I noted earlier in this thread, the evidence of hair taken from him post-mortem helped convince Libbie that his remains had been accurately identified. Post-mortem hair was removed from Custer on two occasions - when it lay on the battlefield on June 27 1876, and on July 27 1877 at Fort Lincoln. The first occasion has already been discussed on this thread, being that when Dr Porter removed hair from Custer as well as other officers immediately prior to their burial on June 27 1876.
Following the exhumation of Custer's remains by Colonel Mike Sheridan's detail on July 2 1877, Custer's remains were conveyed east via Fort Abraham Lincoln. It was there, on July 27 that Major Joseph G. Tilford of the 7th Cavalry removed the second lock of Custer hair. Tilford explained his action in a letter to Libbie Custer dated July 28 1877:
"On yesterday I shipped by US Express via Chicago, the remains of your heroic husband Genl. Custer to West Point, N.Y., care of the Commanding Officer of that Post. These were my instructions from Genl. Sheridan. I presume an officer will accompany the remains from Chicago on.
It may be some consolation for you to know that I personally superintended the transfer of the remains from the box in which they came from the battlefield to the casket which conveys them to West Point.
I enclose you a lock of hair taken from the remains which are so precious to you. I also kept a few hairs for myself as having been worn by a man who was my beau ideal of a soldier and honorable Gentleman."*
The lock of hair from in the Gene Autry museum, if of authentic provenance to Libbie Custer, must therefore be either that taken by Porter in 1876, or Tilford in 1877.
As I indicated earlier in this thread, the importance of the locks of hair in authenticating the remains of Custer ought not to be underestimated. Libbie Custer had saved examples of her beloved husband's hair throughout their marriage - she famously had a wig made of his hair when he had it cut short around the time of their marriage. It is to be supposed that cuttings from his last haircut before the 1876 campaign were similarly hoarded. My point is that Libbie Custer was absolutely familiar with her Autie's crowning glory - and she wasn't just reliant upon memory, she clearly had numerous actual examples of it to compare with those removed from his body in 1876 and 1877. In light of this, and taken in conjunction with the majority of eyewitness accounts which state that Custer was readily identifiable, the fact that Libbie Custer was convinced by the hair samples that the remains were indeed her husbands is to me conclusive evidence that the right body was identified.
Another anecdote relating to Custer trichology - and which confirms the relative ubiquity of authentic examples of Custer hair - is told by Katherine Gibson, wife of Lieutenant Francis Gibson. It begins at Fort Lincoln in 1875, and ends years after the Little Bighorn:
"One day as I dropped in at the Custers' as usual, I glimpsed the General sitting in a side room, wearing what appeared to be an encompassing bib. Behind him stood a company barber trimming his hair, and as the curls fell upon a sheet stretched on the floor I was moved to remark enviously, 'What a pity to waste such curls on a mere man.' he laughed, his eyes twinkling as he retorted teasingly, 'Why grudge mere man a little bit of embellishment?'
Later he appeared on the porch with three small boxes which he tendered, one by one, to Annie Yates, Mrs. Custer, and me. 'Lest I should be labeled stingy,' he stated with mock solemnity. In each box reposed a single golden curl. Of course, this provoked much hilarity, in which he joined heartily. I slipped my gift in my pocket and forgot about it until some years later when it served me in an odd capacity."**
The corollary to Mrs Gibson's story, which occured years later, is related in the elegiac final pages of her memoirs - which were first published posthumously by her daughter in 1940:
"I happened to be rummaging through an old trunk that hadn't been used for ages, and, quite by chance, my hand fell upon a small box. Wonderingly, I opened it, and as I did so I caught my breath, for another shade of the long ago was released to haunt me - a beneficent shade - a shade that revived a merry jest, made one day at Fort Lincoln.
Yes, looking at me almost challengingly, as though daring me to blot out the past, lay the forgotten golden curl of General Custer. At first sight of it, bringing its poignant memories, I was threatened with an attack of hysterics, but I fought to control myself - I had to for Mollie's sake. Then, after a while, as I calmed down an idea came to me, and, taking one of the lace caps my husband's mother had sent the baby, I basted that curl in the front of it, and thus my wee one's first picture was taken........"***
And Mrs. Gibsons memoirs (available in reprint) contain that first photo of her baby, wearing a lace cap from the front of which protrudes Custer's lock of hair in the manner of Bill Haley's kiss curl!
It seems to me that the matter of whether it is Custer's remains which repose in his tomb at West Point could be resolved through these authenticated hair samples, thus obviating the need for an exhumation. It would only need the samples of hair taken before his death and held by, amongst others, the decendants of the Custer, Yates and Gibson families to be subjected to DNA testing, and then compared to DNA results extracted from the post-mortem examples taken by Porter and Tilford.
Ciao, GAC
*Quoted in Lawrence A. Frost, General Custer's Libbie, Superior, 1976, pp. 241 - 242.
**Katherine Gibson Fougera, With Custer's Cavalry, Caxton, 1940, pp. 226 - 227.
***Ibid., p. 283.
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Post by Scout on Jun 24, 2005 15:52:09 GMT -6
Hey General,
Excellent info! But as far as Custer's body...how much was found? One account says only a hatful....it hard to imagine that little amount of remains would have hair on it. Seems Tilford's sample might be questionable...but, then if Libby id'd it, there can't be much of an argument. As far as the body at West Point....how much was interred?
Scout
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jun 25, 2005 0:33:23 GMT -6
Nancy -- The late Charles Custer presented a lock of Custer's hair to my husband. It is indeed "strawberry blond," rather than yellow-blond. I am not sure when the lock of hair was acquired, but I have no doubt that it is authentic as it came from a Custer family member.
One of the LBHA Newsletter readers has tried, without success, to locate the Tilford letter to Libbie. Dr. Larry Frost wrote about it, so I am quite certain it exists. Did you actually see the letter? If so, do you have any idea where it is now?
Thanks in advance, Diane
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Post by crzhrs on Jul 10, 2005 10:17:28 GMT -6
The only way to authenticate a dead person's hair is to have a DNA test.
Too many "authentic" Custer relics have turned out to be a hoax . . . a la the stuff on eBay!
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bhist
Full Member
Posts: 221
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Post by bhist on Jul 10, 2005 12:39:26 GMT -6
Diane -- Here we have hurricane Dennis about to hit your home and you tell us you all have a lock of Custer's hair?
I've suggested you all move to Colorado where you never have to worry about hurricanes, only tornadoes that can easily be dodged. Now, I know you need to do this because we don't need Custer's hair swept out into the Gulf of Mexico.
Plus, think of the advantages of car-pooling up to LBH from Colorado!!
Seriously, I keep watching Dennis getting closer to you guys and now it looks like you'll be in the worst part of the storm -- the front end or on the east side. Get the heck out of there!!!
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Post by weir on Jul 12, 2005 11:57:06 GMT -6
Diane -- Here we have hurricane Dennis about to hit your home and you tell us you all have a lock of Custer's hair? I've suggested you all move to Colorado where you never have to worry about hurricanes, only tornadoes that can easily be dodged. Now, I know you need to do this because we don't need Custer's hair swept out into the Gulf of Mexico. Plus, think of the advantages of car-pooling up to LBH from Colorado!! Seriously, I keep watching Dennis getting closer to you guys and now it looks like you'll be in the worst part of the storm -- the front end or on the east side. Get the heck out of there!!! I propose to you to come to Switzerland. Since 1848, we have had no wars, no hurricanes, no economy problems, and our only concern for the next decade is a delay of 10 mn because of the building of a new road. Yes, that's a neutral country. Nobody is really angry against us, but nobody admire us. Neutral, but ghosts.
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Post by crzhrs on Jul 12, 2005 15:52:50 GMT -6
Yeah . . . but you have great Swiss Miss Hot Cocoa
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Post by thresherscorpion on Jul 30, 2005 21:59:48 GMT -6
I saw a lock of Gen Custer's hair w/my own two eyes the other day at the Civil War Mus. in Harrisburg, PA. I can report with no uncertainty that Gen Custer's hair was colored RED: not yellow: maybe if you want to stretch it you could call it strawberry blond: but to my eye: RED
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Post by nightshepherd on Aug 17, 2005 1:16:43 GMT -6
One way to dispell or confirm accounts would be to perform an autopsy on the skeletal remains, this would probabley involve alot of legal wrangling! An article in the National Geographic does show a soldiers remains with axe or hatchet marks, wether this was done post mortem or when wounded is an open question. But going by past circumstances the Indians did mutilate bodies after death, Fetterman is a classic example. I do wonder if Tom Custer gave his brother the "Last Bullet", where did Tom's remains end up.....I think he should have been interned too at the Point. Cheers from Tassie ...Troy
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