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Post by Tricia on Nov 15, 2007 20:56:07 GMT -6
Since we're discussing the "keeping it real" attitudes towards some members of the Seventh, I'd like to know your take about Tom Custer. Like his older brother, he tended to have friends or enemies; he might have angered Rain In The Face to the point where Tom became a marked man, and The of-course: Armstrong often said that his brother should have been the general and himself the captain.
So, what exactly was Thomas Ward Custer? Have fun! --t.
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Post by conz on Nov 16, 2007 10:26:25 GMT -6
My nomination for what he WAS as most important:
- A double Medal of Honor winner.
For what he WASN'T:
- A West Pointer (no formal military education...just Civil War experience *par excellance*)
Clair
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Post by strange on Nov 16, 2007 10:29:24 GMT -6
I voted "Superb soldier". He was real rough around the edges, but all around he was a solid fighter I think.
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Post by harpskiddie on Nov 16, 2007 10:42:43 GMT -6
I'm with them, since they're buying the drinks afterward. I was torn about the "no gentleman" thing, since I do believe our Tom was a bit of a cad when it came to the ladies. If you'd had a category of "great soldier but perhaps lacking in the social graces when it came to the fairer sex" I might have ticked that one off. I'm good at ticking things, and people, off. That is my purpose in life.
Master of Chaos
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Post by BrokenSword on Nov 16, 2007 11:33:47 GMT -6
I think you (Trish) sum Tom (the man) up with your words, ‘Have Fun.’ Remember his drilling a hole in the schoolroom floor? Keeping it hidden (for a short while) by placing his foot over it so as to spit tobacco juice through it during class?
Personally, I tend to see Tom (the officer) as better than many others then, but not as good as some. The value of a subordinate who understands how you think and who can anticipate your ‘desires’ to a high degree of accuracy cannot be underestimated. (Remember Radar O’Riley, anyone?)
In another outfit, under another commander, Tom may have been just so-so in value to the regiment. Being a (Field) Commander’s trusted and proven sub-ordinate, and therefore un-official #2, elevated him (no jokes, Gordie) beyond what was reflected by his actual rank. Tom was in that spot more to ability than nepotism. In my opinion.
Whether the enlisted men under his command liked him or not is rather unimportant. His fancy free ways with the ladies were…well… probably for best. An army post out in the back yard of nowhere was no good life to offer a Mrs. So, because of his unique relationship with the Commander and his (apparently) competence as an officer, I would rank him very highly.
Sometimes the right job at the right time allows one to shine brighter than otherwise might prove to be the case. But- Living in the glare of the glorified can certainly hide the brightness of your light.
M
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Post by Tricia on Nov 16, 2007 18:20:51 GMT -6
I think you (Trish) sum Tom (the man) up with your words, ‘Have Fun.’ Remember his drilling a hole in the schoolroom floor? Keeping it hidden (for a short while) by placing his foot over it so as to spit tobacco juice through it during class? Personally, I tend to see Tom (the officer) as better than many others then, but not as good as some. The value of a subordinate who understands how you think and who can anticipate your ‘desires’ to a high degree of accuracy cannot be underestimated (Remember Radar O’Riley, anyone?) ... Whether the enlisted men under his command liked him or not is rather unimportant. His fancy free ways with the ladies were…well… probably for best. An army post out in the back yard of nowhere was no good life to offer a Mrs. So, because of his unique relationship with the Commander and his (apparently) competence as an officer, I would rank him very highly. M I think the key to Tom's leadership style is Daniel Knipe. Did he "desert" or did he go to the pack train on TWC's orders? I met the dude who re-enacts the fair sergeant--and of course, he thinks his character was bathed in nobility and would have--if circumstances allowed--gone down with his company had he not done other things. Yeah, right. A gentleman? Not Tom ... unless he was in Libbie's presence. Treated women like dirt, showed no acknowledgement of his son, Tommy, went wild after his fiancee died. In many ways he was like his older brother, but never quite as smooth. And supposedly, Tom was "treated" for syphilis in 1870--all records conveniently missing ... Chairmistress, NACC, Nuthouse member
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Post by Tricia on Nov 16, 2007 18:23:09 GMT -6
Unfortunately, Elisabeth is in communicado this week, so we all need to look forward to her contributions!
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Post by Tricia on Nov 16, 2007 18:29:51 GMT -6
I'm with them, since they're buying the drinks afterward. I was torn about the "no gentleman" thing, since I do believe our Tom was a bit of a cad when it came to the ladies. If you'd had a category of "great soldier but perhaps lacking in the social graces when it came to the fairer sex" I might have ticked that one off. I'm good at ticking things, and people, off. That is my purpose in life. Master of Chaos Oh, Master Gordo-- I wonder who you hack off? Like Tom, you tend to be too gregarious for your own good! Some folks--in true GAC fashion--really need to stop taking this board too darn seriously. Chairmistress, NACC, 2007 Miss Spotted Tail, 2003- (Well, except for Darkcloud. He's still convinced I'm some monster from the black hole of Custeriana--for an old guy, he lacks maturation and that need to realise the addage that if a bunch of folks jump off a bridge, you don't need to follow. Also, I know he wants to lick Steve Alexander's boots.)
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Post by BrokenSword on Nov 16, 2007 19:36:39 GMT -6
Trish-
Speaking of Elisabeth. Is everything okay with her? Do you know? I've been a little concerned at her absence lately.
M
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Post by Tricia on Nov 16, 2007 21:08:02 GMT -6
Trish- Speaking of Elisabeth. Is everything okay with her? Do you know? I've been a little concerned at her absence lately. M She had a remodeling project that had to be done, which forced her to unplug the computer. Thought she'd be off a week ... so she should be back very soon to grace us with her signature intelligence and Tupperware gossip! --t.
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Post by Melani on Nov 17, 2007 0:53:50 GMT -6
Unplug the computer?!?! Oh my God, it's serious! I pray she survives! ;D
I voted for "let's explore," because that's really why I'm here. I think maybe part of Tom's usefullness was his ability as a soldier, and partly the fact that his CO was the brother he grew up with, and he could be expected to understand Autie's thinking and even anticipate to some degree. So nepotism is involved as well, but perhaps with reason.
Tom certainly was a hell-raiser, and could have used some civilizing--unfortunately, Libbie doesn't seem to have had all that much effect in that regard, despite her efforts. I think he may have suffered from younger-brother syndrome--Autie was the Golden Boy who got all the glory, leaving Tom more free to misbehave, since everyone was paying attention to his brother and not him. I am basing this opinion on a family I know, where the oldest child is the beautiful, brilliant Golden Girl with perfect scores on her SAT's and overflowing with charm and poise. Her younger brother is equally good-looking and perfectly talented, but has adopted a laid-back, careless attitude and tends to be lazy. I get a similar impression of Tom in his personal life. On the other hand, anybody with two MOH's is not sloppy or laid-back as a soldier.
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Post by BrokenSword on Nov 17, 2007 6:40:59 GMT -6
Trish wrote- "She had a remodeling project that had to be done, which forced her to unplug the computer. Thought she'd be off a week ..." Melani wrote- " Unplug the computer?!?! Oh my God, it's serious! I pray she survives!"
Wow! Its worse than I imagined. A WHOLE week? Please do pray for her, and for some of us as well, Melani. I may need to seek counseling to see me through.
Master of Chaos - Help me! Hear my plea!
M
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Post by BrokenSword on Nov 17, 2007 6:47:14 GMT -6
Trish-
"...I think the key to Tom's leadership style is Daniel Knipe. Did he "desert" or did he go to the pack train on TWC's orders? I met the dude who re-enacts the fair sergeant--and of course, he thinks his character was bathed in nobility and would have--if circumstances allowed--gone down with his company had he not done other things. Yeah, right.
A gentleman? Not Tom ... unless he was in Libbie's presence. Treated women like dirt, showed no acknowledgement of his son, Tommy, went wild after his fiancee died. In many ways he was like his older brother, but never quite as smooth.
And supposedly, Tom was "treated" for syphilis in 1870--all records conveniently missing ..."
Well, nobody's perfect. Are they? Still like Tom, but then I never actually met him. Haven't voted yet either.
Personally, I run warm and cool on the Knipe issue. I usually cast something of a jaundiced eye on characters whose stories sorta 'pick up' details along the way. I've met a few WWII vets (Bless their hearts) that tend to do the same. To be fair, their stories are usually based on fact, but have grown a little sexier with age.
Ah, one day, mine may do the same. "There I was! The only thing between America and the hoards of Asia when suddenly, I stood up, and without hesitation, I........."
M
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Post by harpskiddie on Nov 17, 2007 10:41:09 GMT -6
Michael: Since you've broached the subject, let me say that McDougall was not the only officer who thought highly of Knipe. Varnum called him "a good reliable man" in a letter to Walter Camp, 1908. I must point out that this is not a sarcastic post, but dead serious, and that the quote is exact and in context. Apparently a sarcastic remark I made on another thread was taken seriously by those who take such things seriously, resulting in another withering rebuttal. At least I won the pool on how long it would take for the withering to commence.
So I wanted you to know that this was not more of the same old blather from me, since I don't want any more withering looks trained in my general direction. As the "French??" soldier on the ramparts in Monty Python and The Holy Grail loudly declaimed: "We already got one!!"
I'm afraid that the Master of Chaos cannot help you, my son [he is on the potty just now] - you are doomed. We are all doomed, damned, and covered with spittle if we did not duck in time.
Gordie MC
PS never volunteer and NEVER stand up............................that's "hordes" by the way, unless you're speaking of stuffed mattresses. Glad to help..............
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Post by harpskiddie on Nov 17, 2007 10:42:43 GMT -6
PPS
I was in Communicado last Wednesday, and must have just missed her. Maybe she was at the Laundromat.
Gordie
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