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Post by elisabeth on Jul 22, 2007 6:50:35 GMT -6
... take pity on us. Put us out of our misery and tell us what's going on! At the moment we don't know whether we're victims of secession, a coup d'etat, Invasion of the Body-Snatchers, or what. It's very unsettling.
First we've had the name change ... Then all mention of "membership" was removed from both the forum and the home page, and links to certain people's websites were also expunged ... Then assorted content was deleted ... And now it seems that you've "disappeared" Little Big Horn Associates in its entirety -- as anyone attempting to access the previous website via Google, or any other search engine, gets an automatic redirect to this littlebighorn.info address. This is more than a little distressing, as (a) Little Big Horn Associates Inc. is the organisation to which we pay our dues, and I for one would rather like to continue to have access to something of which I'm a member; and (b) it means we're now cut off from all sorts of really valuable content, such as those excellent articles in the "Feedback Forum" section.
I'm sure you must have your reasons for doing all this, and I'm sure you consider them good. For the sake of those of us who feel as if our home is being demolished around us brick by brick, it would be a kindness if you could explain them. Or at the very least, give us some warning of how much further demolition is planned. Without a clue as to what's afoot, many of us don't know whether to sit tight and hope for the best, or head for the hills straight away ...
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Post by markland on Jul 22, 2007 7:40:58 GMT -6
Elisabeth, you are welcome to join Gordie and I in the hills while we await for the fall-out to cease.
Billy
P.S. Please, please don't bring that axle-grease you were talking about on another thread!
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 22, 2007 8:13:28 GMT -6
Thanks, Billy!
(Depends how long it takes. I can survive without the axle-grease for maybe a week or so, but not more than that ... )
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 22, 2007 9:30:11 GMT -6
First, let me make two things very clear:
1. These boards were never part of Little Big Horn Associates and there was a disclaimer to that effect at the top of Custeriana Queries.
2. I have not requested nor received one penny of compensation or reimbursement for the expenses of the Associates' website EVER, including its domain name and web hosting, so your dues have not contributed to this wholly-voluntary effort.
Here is all I know now. I'm sure Trish and others from the conference will fill in the gaps.
The Associates board of directors voted to "take down" the message boards. I have heard two different reasons for their action, neither of which makes any sense.
In my opinion, these boards are/were the most valuable part of the website and I am not going to take them down. Since the Associates wanted a divorce, I divorced it.
While the content of most of the Associates' site was public-domain stuff, I spent countless hours setting up the website and, in fact, hold the copyright to its design. I'm not going to hand over four years of work to someone else.
The reason some content is missing from the Articles section of the new site is that I need to get permission from people before posting their work. I would guess that the "Feedback" boys will be back soon, but I not going to presume anyone's permission.
I checked the counter stats while I switched it over to the new site and saw that, of the 150,000+ hits on the old website, over 100,000 of them were "unique" visitors. The board of directors never understood nor appreciated the website or these message boards.
You probably don't feel better now, but I certainly do.
Diane
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Post by markland on Jul 22, 2007 9:41:45 GMT -6
First, let me make two things very clear: 1. These boards were never part of Little Big Horn Associates and there was a disclaimer to that effect at the top of Custeriana Queries. 2. I have not requested nor received one penny of compensation or reimbursement for the expenses of the Associates' website EVER, including its domain name and web hosting, so your dues have not contributed to this wholly-voluntary effort. Here is all I know now. I'm sure Trish and others from the conference will fill in the gaps. The Associates board of directors voted to "take down" the message boards. I have heard two different reasons for their action, neither of which makes any sense. In my opinion, these boards are/were the most valuable part of the website and I am not going to take them down. Since the Associates wanted a divorce, I divorced it. While the content of most of the Associates' site was public-domain stuff, I spent countless hours setting up the website and, in fact, hold the copyright to its design. I'm not going to hand over four years of work to someone else. The reason some content is missing from the Articles section of the new site is that I need to get permission from people before posting their work. I would guess that the "Feedback" boys will be back soon, but I not going to presume anyone's permission. I checked the counter stats while I switched it over to the new site and saw that, of the 150,000+ hits on the old website, over 100,000 of them were "unique" visitors. The board of directors never understood nor appreciated the website or these message boards. You probably don't feel better now, but I certainly do. Diane Err, the B.O.D. voted to take down a board for which they only lend a affiliation and do not recompense the web master for hosting and other expenses? And this was not put up for a vote to the LBHA membership? I suspect that my annual pittance will now be redirected to a more worthwhile organization. Diane, if you need to set-up collection of some type of membership/dues/contribution for this site, count me in. I can donate my next years LBHA membership dollars Billy
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 22, 2007 9:53:04 GMT -6
Darn you, Billy!
I was being so strong about all of this -- not flinching a bit -- until I read your note. You made me cry and now I can't stop.
You know I love you !
Diane
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 22, 2007 10:17:19 GMT -6
Diane -- thank you!!! I certainly do feel better now. And I can see -- now -- why you had to keep your intentions under wraps until the conference weekend. (Classic coup timing. Congratulations!) "Oh ye of little faith" ... I should have known you better than to worry. But I'm sure you can understand why I and so many others did. Please forgive me.
I'm with Billy on the contribution front. Of course I assume (or hope) you'll now be getting the ad revenue from the site, which I imagine previously went to the original LBHA, and I hope that helps ... but yes, I'd cheerfully make a donation or whatever. And -- a couple of other ideas? (1) If some may indeed be tempted to vote with their feet, at the cost of missing out on future Research Review/Newsletter issues ... how about keeping the discussion forum itself free, but having some full-length articles on a subscription-only basis once in a while? Or a simple fee-per-article. That might work just as well. And (2) how about some sort of book sale/exchange/loan service? It could be a blessing to all of us, plus you could reap either subscriptions or a commission for it.
Thank you again for explaining what's going on, and setting our minds at rest. And for saving the forum!
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Post by markland on Jul 22, 2007 10:41:09 GMT -6
I for one only joined the LBHA because of the message board! And thus, I can just as easily leave it unless my "representatives" don't get their collective heads out of their collective anus posteri.
Now that I have butchered Latin as they butcher representative governance, I feel much better.
By the way, the answer to the question I posed on another thread is George N. Waterbury, private of Co. E, 2d Battalion, 18 Infantry regiment. Killed on December 21, 1866 in another event with parallels to the Custer Cluster. He states on his enlistment papers that he is/was a native of Monroe Co., Michigan.
Billy
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Post by Treasuredude on Jul 22, 2007 11:00:52 GMT -6
Wow. I didn't suspect this.
In this day and age an organization must have an internet presence to survive. I will predict that the powers that be will be back begging when membership suddenly dwindles for no apparent reason.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 22, 2007 11:02:00 GMT -6
Thank you, Elisabeth! I'm sorry things were so confusing for a few days, but I didn't -- and still don't -- know the full story. I felt I had to be proactive to protect the boards, but this has not been fun.
Just to be clear, no ad revenue has gone to the Associates or me. The only ads are on these boards, and their revenue goes to the proboards people. I could purchase an an-free version, but I don't find the ads intrusive -- don't like the bondage one though! -- and I am pleased to have use of their server space. To be more proactive and as suggested by Dietmar, we really need to make sure the great information on these boards is backed up. It would be great to consolidate the raw information -- removing the opinions and speculations -- and perhaps the wiki can be used to get that going. That alone would be a Herculean project, but it can be done.
Thank you for your excellent ideas. I will see if I can make them happen. My intent is not to charge for anything -- like the rest of you, I am here because I love certain aspects of the LBH story, not for financial gain -- but a "pay per view" system may be an interesting way of enticing authors to share their work. If you've got some ideas of how the book loan system could work, please let me know.
I appreciate the kind offers you and Billy made about supporting the website, but I'm OK. I am not encouraging anyone to drop membership in the Associates, especially if you enjoy the publications. Perhaps there will be an equally effective way to voice concerns once we know the whole story.
Now I understand why Gordie -- and many others -- don't join such groups any more!
Thank you and best wishes,
Diane
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 22, 2007 11:40:25 GMT -6
Well ... it's going to be interesting to hear reports once people are back from North Platte!
Not sure about the book system; that was just off the top of my head (not the most productive place in the world). Was vaguely thinking: either a subscription to belong to it, with unlimited loans -- users paying own postage, and of course with some additional charge for insurance, per book or per membership; or a simple fee per book, to include insurance and shipping (rates charged appropriately for destination), of which you as organiser would take a cut. It could be slightly problematic, as the books most in request would be the high-value items few of us can afford to buy, and would be most tempted to keep. But I guess if every participant had to register (securely) their credit-card details in advance, and could be docked if they failed to return books on time or at all, it could work ...
Hmmmm. Probably more bother than it's worth, come to think of it. Possibly just a straightforward subscription-only loan/exchange mart, in which people make their own security arrangements, might be simpler!
More apologies, by the way; I made the assumption about ad revenue on the basis of (I should know better, I worked for them) Reader's Digest. They mentioned an outfit called TradeDoubler, that apparently pays healthy sums for hosting ads on your website. Now, how that stacks up against the benefits of a free (I would hope) forum hoster, I don't know ... but just might be worth investigating?
It must have been ghastly for you, having to do all this without being able to explain why. I feel for you. Great stuff!
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 22, 2007 11:46:01 GMT -6
T-Dude, I suspect they'll just find another webmaster, which is why I wanted to protect my work. The new webmaster will probably be more talented. I do websites for about ten different friends and organizations without compensation because I don't claim to have any extraordinary talents.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 22, 2007 12:10:23 GMT -6
Elisabeth, I just looked at the TradeDoubler site, and they don't list the US as one of their countries, or maybe I was at the wrong place.
The whole reason for the change to "Little Bighorn History Alliance" is that I cannot change the message boards' website address without losing the boards and everything on them. The same is true for the wiki, but that would be easy to re-do. The Alliance was an early attempt to distance the Associates from liability for the boards. I had a feeling the boards were the next target for a couple of reasons cited earlier.
Please don't apologize for anything. I wish I could give more answers, but I don't have them. I would guess most people will be home from the conference tomorrow, so perhaps we'll get some information soon.
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Post by Melani on Jul 22, 2007 12:41:26 GMT -6
Now why would the Board want to take down the message boards? It's the biggest thing that attracts people to the organization. I for one will be very interested in hearing the results of that conference, and I certainly want to see the minutes of any votes.
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Post by Tricia on Jul 22, 2007 14:06:02 GMT -6
Guys--
I'm writing this from North Platte--my plane doesn't leave until five--and needless to say, I (and my companions) was/were aghast at some of the stuff that happened here ... I'll fill in some of the details when I get home.
The conference ended on a sadly, shocking and negative note. But if the BOD thinks they can push the organisation back into the 19th Century and Glorify Only The Sainted Autie, they are going to lose members. We cannot attract young people to Custeriana when a group is so dedicated against progress and staffed by, well, fossils. Speaking personally, I can't say how many wonderful people I've met through this board--both social friends and professional contacts. THAT IS WHAT MAKES THIS PLACE SO DARN WONDERFUL!
The 2009 Conference will take place in Billings; hotel arrangements not yet made. A small cache of us are hoping for New Orleans and soon, as that city really needs the tourist dollars.
But the group of friends that have made this board strong and--generally--happy needs to meet on our own ... someday. Monroe, Memphis, whatever.
Awards: John D. Mackintosh won the Research Review article of the year for his article on the Seventh vs. the Clan.
John Lubetkin (I knew this was gonna win, I knew it) won the book award for Jay Cooke's Gamble.
I won the award for the Person With Pink Hair competition! And I had to ship all of my purchases back to Little Rock via UPS ... sigh. I swore "no more books" after LBH this year.
Okay, gotta finish packing. I limited my photos to the Camp Alexis site--sorry. No pikkie with any re-enactor, large or small.
And though I've expressed this privately, I am fully in support of Diane and Chuck Merkel's efforts whilst associated with LBHA and I will continue to be so in the future. Not seeing them at this conference left a very big hole in many people's hearts. When our GAC called this "an august board," he was absolutely correct!
Trish
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