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Post by Yan Taylor on Sept 11, 2022 13:25:44 GMT -6
Hey guys, I was under the impression that Custer did not know Reno was in trouble. If Custer did know, then his movements make even less sense. The only logical reason to keep advancing had he known about Reno's retreat may have been to attack quickly via Ford B to relieve pressure on Reno. But the evidence seems thin that a major effort was made at ford B. So can we clarify this point? Is there some evidence that he was aware of Reno's dilemma? cheers Francis Well I have debated this before, so the main clues are; Martini; After I started from Gen. Custer to go back, I travelled 5 or 600 yards perhaps 3/4 of a mile. I got on the same ridge where General Custer saw the village the first time. On going back over that ridge I looked down into the bottom, and I saw Major Reno's battalion was engaged. I paid no further attention to it, but went forward on my business. Then I went on to the edge of the stream and about 3 or 400 yards above the creek where we watered our horses, I met Capt. Benteen.Then we have Boston Custer riding with the pack train, breaking free and riding to catch the Custer battalion, he past Martini so would have also saw what he saw. Then the three crows said the told Custer Reno was licked and Bouyer may have confirmed this. So Martini and maybe Boston saw Reno engaged, but the Indians say Reno was beaten. Ian
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Post by Nape Sintekiya Mani on Sept 11, 2022 14:10:27 GMT -6
If Martini had seen Reno leaving, he would have told Benteen when he found him. So when Martini passed the ridges and looked down into the valley, all he could see was Reno's progress toward the Indian village.
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Post by herosrest on Sept 11, 2022 15:06:33 GMT -6
Hey guys, I was under the impression that Custer did not know Reno was in trouble. If Custer did know, then his movements make even less sense. The only logical reason to keep advancing had he known about Reno's retreat may have been to attack quickly via Ford B to relieve pressure on Reno. But the evidence seems thin that a major effort was made at ford B. So can we clarify this point? Is there some evidence that he was aware of Reno's dilemma? cheers Francis Well I have debated this before, so the main clues are; Martini; After I started from Gen. Custer to go back, I travelled 5 or 600 yards perhaps 3/4 of a mile. I got on the same ridge where General Custer saw the village the first time. On going back over that ridge I looked down into the bottom, and I saw Major Reno's battalion was engaged. I paid no further attention to it, but went forward on my business. Then I went on to the edge of the stream and about 3 or 400 yards above the creek where we watered our horses, I met Capt. Benteen.Then we have Boston Custer riding with the pack train, breaking free and riding to catch the Custer battalion, he past Martini so would have also saw what he saw. Then the three crows said the told Custer Reno was licked and Bouyer may have confirmed this. So Martini and maybe Boston saw Reno engaged, but the Indians say Reno was beaten. Ian This is one of the few sequences of events across which reasonable timing assessments acn be made, with Martin stating he was back on the hill where Custer viewed the valley within 15 minutes of leaving there. That is also from where Knipe rode back to Benteen and the packtrain. We also know particularly where that hill is and 15 minutes with a hurried advance by Custer and urgent message in return, is reasonable for Martin. Thus a sequence along the lines of Custer views valley. 5-6 minutes later Custer is halted on MTC. Martin departs. Martin looks back and Custer is heading north towards the battleground. 5-6 minutes after leaving Custer in MTC, Martin sees Reno fighting in the valley. Now the distance to MTC is around 2 miles and 4 miles round trip. 15 miles an hour. Is this realistic? Add five minutes overall and it is perfectly possible erring to caution. So 12-15 mph. Custer's command made a rapid 12-15mph advance to MTC. Lt. Varnum sighted the advance as he dismounted in the timber after riding in from the left flank of Reno's halt in the valley. Martin covered another 2 miles to meet Benteen in Reno Ck. another 7 minutes. If we assume that Varnum's sighting of Company E was the beginning of dismounted skirmish in the valley, giving 5 minutes to dismount and deploy the fighting line, then the valley action had been underway 15 minutes when Benteen mat Martin with Custer's written order. Benteen was a mile or less from Ford A and less than 5 minutes from observing events in the valley. Benteen’s Views of the Valley Fight
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