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Post by greathunter on Jan 30, 2022 11:59:07 GMT -6
Question for all of you...
If you were a commanding officer at the time, would you have any reservations about haveing green troops going into a campaign like that, or am i over thinking things?
Just seems like a disaster waiting to happen, kinda like, i. A bank robber, if im going to pull a job i think inwould want other expirienced guys to help me so everything would go smoothly, not people with no experience who might cause me to get caught..
Sorry for bad analogy folks
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Post by wild on Jan 30, 2022 14:49:00 GMT -6
If they were green, untrained and armed with a single shot carbine Id worry
cheers
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Post by greathunter on Jan 30, 2022 15:03:08 GMT -6
Im conflicted, are you agreeing with me ?
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Post by greathunter on Jan 30, 2022 15:04:30 GMT -6
As it is, im watching the 1956 movie 7th calvery with Randolph scott..
Im addicted to this stuff lol
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 30, 2022 15:04:48 GMT -6
Question for all of you... If you were a commanding officer at the time, would you have any reservations about haveing green troops going into a campaign like that, or am i over thinking things? Just seems like a disaster waiting to happen, kinda like, i. A bank robber, if im going to pull a job i think inwould want other expirienced guys to help me so everything would go smoothly, not people with no experience who might cause me to get caught.. Sorry for bad analogy folks I don't like quoting Freds work in case I get it incorrect but the company I have on file with the most troopers with under six months service is B Company with six men. I think the other company was G with three. I think most of the men with less than six months service were actually left behind the powder river depot. Ian |
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Post by noggy on Jan 30, 2022 15:26:26 GMT -6
Question for all of you... If you were a commanding officer at the time, would you have any reservations about haveing green troops going into a campaign like that, or am i over thinking things? Just seems like a disaster waiting to happen, kinda like, i. A bank robber, if im going to pull a job i think inwould want other expirienced guys to help me so everything would go smoothly, not people with no experience who might cause me to get caught.. Sorry for bad analogy folks I don't like quoting Freds work in case I get it incorrect but the company I have on file with the most troopers with under six months service is B Company with six men. I think the other company was G with three. I think most of the men with less than six months service were actually left behind the powder river depot. Ian But I am pretty sure a third of the regiment had one year of service/there about, during which they had not seen any combat. As for the question; no commanders want tons of green troopers, but there is not always an alternative besides going with what you've got. Noggy |
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Post by wild on Jan 30, 2022 16:19:10 GMT -6
They were no more than garrison troops.
Never exercised as a regiment . And the chain of command went through the Custer clan rather than seniority.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 30, 2022 17:52:27 GMT -6
Garrison troops drilled and trained to fight conventional warfare (whatever that is). Intheory, you follow the book by the numbers and do as you are told (to best of ability).
Sioux and Cheyennes were a formidable opponent when they chose to be who were aware that superior numbers 'could' work in their favour. This is the age old technology issue and at that time warfare was in transtion with technology making warfare less and less personal at the sharp end.
Trying to surround a larger force is as risky as it gets. Surprise seems to have been achieved but it wasn't enough to get the job done.
My view is that Custer gambled and lost and that must only becriticised and the lessons learnt. There are are important lessons to learn. I guarantee you that he wished to concentrate his forces on the village. That didn't happen and the counter was overwhelming. He was aware of that risk and understood in flawed degree, that his regiment would be outnumbered.
There have been a series of remarkable football games these last few weeks. I hope you have enjoyed them. The game today at Arrowhead was remarkable.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 30, 2022 18:23:48 GMT -6
Garrison troops drilled and trained to fight conventional warfare (whatever that is). Intheory, you follow the book by the numbers and do as you are told (to best of ability).
Sioux and Cheyennes were a formidable opponent when they chose to be who were aware that superior numbers 'could' work in their favour. This is the age old technology issue and at that time warfare was in transtion with technology making warfare less and less personal at the sharp end.
Trying to surround a larger force is as risky as it gets. Surprise seems to have been achieved but it wasn't enough to get the job done.
My view is that Custer gambled and lost and that must only be criticised and the lessons learnt. There are are important lessons to learn. I guarantee you that he wished to concentrate his forces on the village. That didn't happen and the counter was overwhelming. He was aware of that risk and understood in flawed degree, that his regiment would be outnumbered.
There have been a series of remarkable football games these last few weeks. I hope you have enjoyed them. The game today at Arrowhead was remarkable.
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Post by noggy on Jan 31, 2022 2:27:42 GMT -6
Garrison troops drilled and trained to fight conventional warfare (whatever that is). Intheory, you follow the book by the numbers and do as you are told (to best of ability). In the vase of many soldiers, I think you are being too kind here, HR  All the best, Noggy |
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 31, 2022 4:26:03 GMT -6
Hi Geir, would I be wrong in saying that nearly all the troops in the US Army circa 1876 were Garrison troops?
AFAIK, the USA had no wars to fight, apart for maybe the pesky natives or the smiling Mexicans, so most of them would be just that "garrison troops"
Ian
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Post by wild on Jan 31, 2022 7:07:41 GMT -6
If the troops were green the officers were not.
Amazing that a regiment commanded by a general and officered by colonels made such a hash of a simple operation?
Perhaps a case of too many chefs,
I think the rout to Weir Point was the lowest point of the whole sorry adventure.
While 5 troops are having their lunch money taken the other 7 are wandering aimless and leaderless to no particular purpose.
One would imagine that John Wayne would have whipped the unit into better shape seeing as how he served many years with them
Speaking of which Hi Ian is my old mate Quinncannon still alive?
Best
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Post by noggy on Jan 31, 2022 9:00:23 GMT -6
Hi Geir, would I be wrong in saying that nearly all the troops in the US Army circa 1876 were Garrison troops? AFAIK, the USA had no wars to fight, apart for maybe the pesky natives or the smiling Mexicans, so most of them would be just that "garrison troops" Ian I think it is a fair assesment. The 7th got recruits who had never ridden a horse prior to the campaign, training was not really a big thing, which of course doesn't help much either. If memory serve my correctly, the US mid 1870s consisted of...about 25k men? 3k of them where at disposal on the prairie. Or just about those numbers. No big wars, that is true, but how about the 4th Cavalry under MacKenzie? They had been fighting the Comanche and other tribes on a much bigger scale than the 72 and 73 skirmishes along the Yellowstone were. Palo Duro Canyon etc. Both the unit and commander would have been a good, solid choice compared to the 7th. Geir |
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 31, 2022 9:11:47 GMT -6
Wild,
Mate, interesting term! Last I heard Quincannon was still on this side of the sod.
You can't get over the fact that the 7 troops did the right thing, not only survived and put up a properly planned defense, while the other 5 troops were led by a commander that never shared his plan with his subordinates. He just toddled off to get his troops some 210 death burgers, via carryout.
By the way, I hope all is well with you, one old geezer to another.
Regards,
Tom
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Post by wild on Jan 31, 2022 10:10:23 GMT -6
Hi Tom
Yes the shadows are growing longer.
And my best to you.
Depends on your perspective Tom "doing the right thing" does.
As far as Benteen and Reno knew Custer was still in action and they[B/R] had the greater part of the regiment operational with nothing in front of them.
They abandoned the mission on the approach of a handful of skirmishers.
What would you guess? 50 indians? 7 troops were seen off by a screen of skirmishers?
Benteen's retreat from Weir point was every bit a rout as Reno's was from the village.
Weir point is an episode in the battle and a tactical defeat for the 7th.
At Reno hill the indians won the fire fight inflicting at least 30 casualties on the corralled troops and allowing the village to escape.
You were a marine Tom if I remember correctly? nough said.
Best
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