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Post by noggy on Aug 13, 2021 17:30:35 GMT -6
Yip-yap. I recently read something which reminded me of... well, having read the same thing previously: During the Spring and summer 1876, large groups of Sioux and Cheyenne were leaving the reservations, heading for the wilderness and other free roaming tribesmen. I've seen it claimed that reservation agents withheld information about this, or at least the scope of this mini exodus, from the government and thereby also the Army, in order to continue receiving full federal rations. 1. Is this true? 2. If so, could anyone here assist me in finding a good source to this? All the best, Noggy PS: I'm willing to bet a lot of kroners on me being the only board member who really likes the band named "Exodus"
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Post by benteen on Aug 14, 2021 8:34:03 GMT -6
Hi noggy,
I have many Custer books and dont remember which one it is in, but I did read that although Custer himself was alleged to have been involved in a shady deal to sell inferior horseshoes to the Army, he did in fact complain about the Indians getting a raw deal on their supplies from corrupt civilians and wanted the process to be turned back over to the Army.
Now for the important issue. Is this not a kicker....
Your band is "Exodus" which means leaving or the end....One of my favorites was
"Genesis" which means the beginning.
Be Well Dan
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Post by benteen on Aug 14, 2021 12:37:45 GMT -6
noggy,
Did a little more searching and came up with the following from "A Terrible Glory" by James Donovan pg 105....
Widespread fraud in the Bureau of Indian Affairs had long occurred on the agency level and was commonly known even in the ranks. As early as 1865, General Alfred Sully had
written, regarding Indian annuities, and claimed that the traders pocketed most of the money. Custer had spoken out against the corruption in interviews, articles, and books, and had
even forced the removal of two of Belknaps traders.(Belknap was the Secretary of war and had control of the country's Indian wards)
Hope this helps
Be Well Dan
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Post by noggy on Aug 14, 2021 19:31:45 GMT -6
noggy, Did a little more searching and came up with the following from "A Terrible Glory" by James Donovan pg 105.... Widespread fraud in the Bureau of Indian Affairs had long occurred on the agency level and was commonly known even in the ranks. As early as 1865, General Alfred Sully had written, regarding Indian annuities, and claimed that the traders pocketed most of the money. Custer had spoken out against the corruption in interviews, articles, and books, and had even forced the removal of two of Belknaps traders.(Belknap was the Secretary of war and had control of the country's Indian wards) Hope this helps Be Well Dan Hello, Benteen/Dan! Thank you for the reply. There is no denying the US treated/treat the reservation Indians poorly, often more than not,. I have also the Donovan book, which does refer to the general...eh...my language faults me...not-so-well behavior towards those NAs confined to the reservations over the years. But the rations and annuities (right word?) sent to the reservations, was based on the number of NAs living there. And then the agents distributed them. Often terribly and involving a lot of corruption at the expense og said NAs. The claim i read, was that in the Spring and early summer of 1876, specifically, reservation agents refused to notify the Government (and at that time the Army) of the numbers of NAs heading out to possibly join "the hostiles", in order to keep the same amount of supplies being sent to them (which they of course could do with as they wished). This would then have mislead the US Army in its evaluating of the NA force (up to a certain point, we now know GAC near the end thought there were 1500 and not "a few hundred" warriors waiting him). Sorry for the long answer/explanation, Dan! All the best, Geir
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Post by fuchs on Aug 15, 2021 3:19:15 GMT -6
Hi Noggy, old-timer delurking here ... this question is probably too tangential to the focus of the boards for getting a satisfying answer. The closest you will probably get is Freds research collection posted hereand you might want to have a look at this thread herewhere Fred and me had some extensive discussion on Indian numbers, with at least some references to the agency numbers in spring 1876. My opinion as to how the ageny reports might or might not have influenced the Centennial campaign: That "exodus" was mostly the same as the years before, with roughly half the Indian population either residing in or migration to the unceded territory at one point in the summer. And this would have been no surprise for the Army, having originally planned the campaign to be finished BEFORE the yearly migration to the hunting grounds got under way. "Census" data was inflated and mostly useless for the whole period from the establishment of the agencies after the Bozeman Trail War up to the military takeover of the agencies in mid 1876. Yip-yap. I recently read something which reminded me of... well, having read the same thing previously: During the Spring and summer 1876, large groups of Sioux and Cheyenne were leaving the reservations, heading for the wilderness and other free roaming tribesmen. I've seen it claimed that reservation agents withheld information about this, or at least the scope of this mini exodus, from the government and thereby also the Army, in order to continue receiving full federal rations. 1. Is this true? 2. If so, could anyone here assist me in finding a good source to this? All the best, Noggy PS: I'm willing to bet a lot of kroners on me being the only board member who really likes the band named "Exodus"
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Post by noggy on Aug 16, 2021 3:55:00 GMT -6
Hi Noggy, old-timer delurking here ... this question is probably too tangential to the focus of the boards for getting a satisfying answer. The closest you will probably get is Freds research collection posted hereand you might want to have a look at this thread herewhere Fred and me had some extensive discussion on Indian numbers, with at least some references to the agency numbers in spring 1876. My opinion as to how the ageny reports might or might not have influenced the Centennial campaign: That "exodus" was mostly the same as the years before, with roughly half the Indian population either residing in or migration to the unceded territory at one point in the summer. And this would have been no surprise for the Army, having originally planned the campaign to be finished BEFORE the yearly migration to the hunting grounds got under way. "Census" data was inflated and mostly useless for the whole period from the establishment of the agencies after the Bozeman Trail War up to the military takeover of the agencies in mid 1876. Hello, fuchs! This board has so many threads and old posts it's like a library, only without as good ways to search up I have bookmarked your links now and will go through them when time allows. I really appreciate it. Also, I have only thought of the reasoning behind launching the operations which led to the Powder River fight in March as being any other than snow/weather reducing the NAs mobility. But when you write about preempting the summer migration,it makes perfect sense and I can't believe I haven't thought of that myself. -Makes Homer Simpson's "Dough!" noise and slaps myself on the forehead- Great point! All the best, Noggy
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