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Post by Diane Merkel on Dec 30, 2017 10:44:57 GMT -6
Below is an excerpt from an article in Cavalier County Extra. The article is poorly presented visually, but it takes a look at an important "somber anniversary."
Robert Utley wrote a book in 1963 called “The Last Days of the Sioux Nation,” describing in detail what led up to the massacre at Wounded Knee. Many of the references in Utley’s book are different than those in the “cookie-cutter” history books.
To summarize, the 7th Cavalry had way more fire power than it needed to disarm the Indians and that included artillery. The Sioux were already at a boiling point because most people don’t realize this, but Wounded Knee happened just two weeks after Sitting Bull was killed. Some say the Cavalry was waiting for an excuse to punish the Sioux tribe for Little Bighorn. Whatever it was, Utley called it “a regrettable, tragic accident of war for which neither side as a whole may be properly condemned.” Article: Upside Down Under
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sandy
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Post by sandy on Dec 31, 2017 0:47:59 GMT -6
I've always liked Utley's books - very well-researched and even-handed. I haven't read Last Days of the Sioux Nation though it's definitely on my reading list.
For anyone who has read the book, I am interested in whether Utley directly mentions the whole "revenge for LBH" thing. I know that Wounded Knee was the first time the Seventh faced the Sioux since the LBH in any major confrontation, and that fact has lead to quite a lot of speculation over whether or not the soldiers were out for revenge that day. I don't really buy it: at that point there had been so much turnover from KIAs and retirements that it wasn't really the same regiment anymore - really the only thing it shared with the LBH Seventh was a handful of officers and enlisted men and the regimental name. With the lack of personal connection to the LBH disaster by the time 1890 came around I doubt the Seventh would have been more interested in "revenge" than any other regiment in the army. I hope I'm making sense.
Happy early New Year everyone.
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Post by noggy on Dec 31, 2017 10:08:30 GMT -6
I've always liked Utley's books - very well-researched and even-handed. I haven't read Last Days of the Sioux Nation though it's definitely on my reading list. For anyone who has read the book, I am interested in whether Utley directly mentions the whole "revenge for LBH" thing. I know that Wounded Knee was the first time the Seventh faced the Sioux since the LBH in any major confrontation, and that fact has lead to quite a lot of speculation over whether or not the soldiers were out for revenge that day. I don't really buy it: at that point there had been so much turnover from KIAs and retirements that it wasn't really the same regiment anymore - really the only thing it shared with the LBH Seventh was a handful of officers and enlisted men and the regimental name. With the lack of personal connection to the LBH disaster by the time 1890 came around I doubt the Seventh would have been more interested in "revenge" than any other regiment in the army. I hope I'm making sense. Happy early New Year everyone. Soldiers often feel a strong connection to their own unit and it`s history. It`s kind of a tribal mentality, every football supporter in Europe will tell of the same thing, hehe. Even today in our Army, recruits are lectured about the history of the division they are assigned to. Being both a former soldier and a history nerd, I applaud this of course. The killing of Custer was a national trauma which was no way near forgotten i 1890, neither then or today it seems. All members of the 7th would have grown up with the outrage the battle created, and served with veterans who had been there. Revanchism is a very real thing which can last for generations even between cultures who are much, much. much more similar than what the Natives and US citizens were. There are accounts of members of the 7th talking openly about "revenge" and revenging Custer after the battle, believing many of the warriors fro LBH were at Wounded Knee. Some people point to the fact that artillery was brought along when the type of mission didn`t seem to require it, meaning the regiment was hoping og looking to start a fight. I do not believe it was plan from say the regimental commander or anything to fight, but I`m sure many soldiers regardless of their service record felt they had something to settle. Just my thoughts of course. And happy New Year to you Sandy and everyone else!
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sandy
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Post by sandy on Dec 31, 2017 11:11:06 GMT -6
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Post by noggy on Dec 31, 2017 12:10:00 GMT -6
Make my battery chief, and there will be less Man City supporters around, at least
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Post by hunkpatila on Jul 4, 2021 7:10:29 GMT -6
Make my battery chief, and there will be less Man City supporters around, at least I have one brother who supports United and another who supports City. The war of words during a football season includes many a fanciful phrase, none of which are suitable for public consumption! As a Liverpool fan, I just don't understand it. We would never stoop so low!! "You'll never walk alone." "Hunk" Papa
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Post by noggy on Jul 5, 2021 1:51:18 GMT -6
Make my battery chief, and there will be less Man City supporters around, at least I have one brother who supports United and another who supports City. The war of words during a football season includes many a fanciful phrase, none of which are suitable for public consumption! As a Liverpool fan, I just don't understand it. We would never stoop so low!! "You'll never walk alone." "Hunk" Papa I'd rather walk alone! i guess in many families, one out of 3 brothers getting it right when it comes to football isn't too bad I do admit, sometimes I go a little overboard and have said (shouted when on match) things I know my mother would have been very disappointed by, but...sigh, it is what it is. Stay safe, and all the best. Noggy
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Jul 6, 2021 5:06:44 GMT -6
I have one brother who supports United and another who supports City. The war of words during a football season includes many a fanciful phrase, none of which are suitable for public consumption! As a Liverpool fan, I just don't understand it. We would never stoop so low!! "You'll never walk alone." "Hunk" Papa I'd rather walk alone! i guess in many families, one out of 3 brothers getting it right when it comes to football isn't too bad I do admit, sometimes I go a little overboard and have said (shouted when on match) things I know my mother would have been very disappointed by, but...sigh, it is what it is. Stay safe, and all the best. Noggy Ah yes, the ever present partisan ripe language. There are so many unprintable chants available but this might just be on the right side of acceptable: We hate Mancs, We hate Mancs, We're not racist, We just hate Mancs Shakespeare it isn't! Interesting season coming up. May the best team win. "Hunk" Papa
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Post by noggy on Jul 6, 2021 7:30:42 GMT -6
I'd rather walk alone! i guess in many families, one out of 3 brothers getting it right when it comes to football isn't too bad I do admit, sometimes I go a little overboard and have said (shouted when on match) things I know my mother would have been very disappointed by, but...sigh, it is what it is. Stay safe, and all the best. Noggy Ah yes, the ever present partisan ripe language. There are so many unprintable chants available but this might just be on the right side of acceptable: We hate Mancs, We hate Mancs, We're not racist, We just hate Mancs Shakespeare it isn't! Interesting season coming up. May the best team win. "Hunk" Papa Very rude stuff, I like the finess in the classic "In Ypur Liverpool Slums" )at least the two verses with text/language I won't be banned for): In your Liverpool slums, you look in a dustbin for something to eat, you find a dead rat and you think it's a treat, In your Liverpool slums
(..) In your Liverpool slums, you wear a shell suit and have got curly hair, all of your kids are in council care, In your Liverpool slumsI fear the noisy neigbors will win it again, tbh. All the best, Noggy
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Jul 6, 2021 10:32:06 GMT -6
Ah yes, the ever present partisan ripe language. There are so many unprintable chants available but this might just be on the right side of acceptable: We hate Mancs, We hate Mancs, We're not racist, We just hate Mancs Shakespeare it isn't! Interesting season coming up. May the best team win. "Hunk" Papa Very rude stuff, I like the finess in the classic "In Ypur Liverpool Slums" )at least the two verses with text/language I won't be banned for): In your Liverpool slums, you look in a dustbin for something to eat, you find a dead rat and you think it's a treat, In your Liverpool slums
(..) In your Liverpool slums, you wear a shell suit and have got curly hair, all of your kids are in council care, In your Liverpool slumsI fear the noisy neigbors will win it again, tbh. All the best, Noggy Have you been looking at my family photos and reading my old diaries? I can't make predictions for the upcoming season as there are too many unknowns, but I think it's safe to say that the usual suspects will be at the sharp end. I fancy Leeds might make a strong showing. "Hunk" Papa
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jul 6, 2021 12:46:44 GMT -6
Geir! Really!!!!!!
How are you doing Hunk.
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Post by noggy on Jul 7, 2021 1:06:09 GMT -6
Very rude stuff, I like the finess in the classic "In Ypur Liverpool Slums" )at least the two verses with text/language I won't be banned for): In your Liverpool slums, you look in a dustbin for something to eat, you find a dead rat and you think it's a treat, In your Liverpool slums
(..) In your Liverpool slums, you wear a shell suit and have got curly hair, all of your kids are in council care, In your Liverpool slumsI fear the noisy neigbors will win it again, tbh. All the best, Noggy Have you been looking at my family photos and reading my old diaries? I can't make predictions for the upcoming season as there are too many unknowns, but I think it's safe to say that the usual suspects will be at the sharp end. I fancy Leeds might make a strong showing. "Hunk" Papa As a MU supporter for over 30 years and dozens upon dozens of match trips under my belt, Leeds are traditionally hard for me to like. But they belong in the PL, Bielsa is just a great character and they play fun football. I would as of today have no problem with them doing well. Everyone, Liverpool included, are better than oil/oligark clubs. Noggy
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Jul 7, 2021 5:34:11 GMT -6
Have you been looking at my family photos and reading my old diaries? I can't make predictions for the upcoming season as there are too many unknowns, but I think it's safe to say that the usual suspects will be at the sharp end. I fancy Leeds might make a strong showing. "Hunk" Papa As a MU supporter for over 30 years and dozens upon dozens of match trips under my belt, Leeds are traditionally hard for me to like. But they belong in the PL, Bielsa is just a great character and they play fun football. I would as of today have no problem with them doing well. Everyone, Liverpool included, are better than oil/oligark clubs. Noggy I take it that you have nothing light blue in your home!? "Hunk" Papa
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Post by noggy on Jul 7, 2021 6:26:01 GMT -6
As a MU supporter for over 30 years and dozens upon dozens of match trips under my belt, Leeds are traditionally hard for me to like. But they belong in the PL, Bielsa is just a great character and they play fun football. I would as of today have no problem with them doing well. Everyone, Liverpool included, are better than oil/oligark clubs. Noggy I take it that you have nothing light blue in your home!? "Hunk" Papa Only my mood.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jul 7, 2021 7:44:34 GMT -6
I hope my mood will be better come 10pm this evening, C'Mon England!!!!!
Ian
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