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Post by noggy on Jun 12, 2017 13:02:08 GMT -6
Hello, hello. After 2 years, more or less, of stalking the other but especially this Board, I decided to just sign up. (Reading the books of Mr. Wagner kind of guided me here, by the way) As far as a bio goes, I`m a 82-model born and living in Norway, I have a Master`s degree in history writing my thesis about WW1 in East Africa, I have been in the army a couple of years getting to see some strange places, and as of today I work within finaces in the educational sector. I have always found the subject of Little Bighorn, Native Americans, Custer and so on very interesting. When time allows it, I do some writing for a a national Magazine dedicated to military history, and I have written about the Apache Wars and the Powder River War (of things relevant to this Board). Not until I was asked to write about LBH did it rally dawn on me just how much of a mystery the whole thing was, though. So while I am nowhere close to having acquired the vast knowledge so many here have demonstrated having over the years, I at least "get it" as to why this is so easy to be consumed by and am basically just really interested in learning as much as I can. I promise to behave as well as I can and look forward to being a small part of the Board. PS: I tend to speak English more than I Write it, so there will be spelling errors en masse. Read more: thelbha.proboards.com/thread/3383/greetings-norway?page=1#ixzz4joftHsG3
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Post by edavids on Jun 13, 2017 13:13:36 GMT -6
Welcome Noggy. Ask many questions and post often. Be prepared to defend your insights. 😊
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Post by noggy on Jun 14, 2017 0:24:06 GMT -6
Thank you, edavids! I have read enough here to know I am going to thread lightly, the level of knowledge here is astonoshing.
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Post by montrose on Jun 14, 2017 5:55:56 GMT -6
So what caused LBH outcome?
1. Poor tactical decision making by LTC Custer. The regiment was scattered in 8 separate pieces, none in supporting distance of any other.
2. Poor training of 7th Cav, distinctly worse than that of other regiments in this Army.
3. Very bad predeployment planning and training from Sep 75-May 76. Note the commander was on personal business in this entire period.
The issue is that the 7th was a train wreck of a unit. Out of 35 regiments, it is the only one capable of losing so badly. The other 34 regiments all would have had better outcomes than the 7th.
I assume you know LTC Custer was convicted by court martial for gross incompetence and dereliction of duty in 1867, The same behavior contributed to LBH outcome. So why was he still in command?
Have fun here.
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Post by noggy on Jun 14, 2017 15:02:45 GMT -6
I`ve had great fun here as a mere spectator, and I hope to have as a member too!
To me, I have sort of always thought that a full regimental charge would have gone a long way, even with the poor training of so many of the soldiers in the 7th at the time of battle. Even without a straight battlefield victory, just scattering the village and destroying their belongings and supplies if the warriors succeeded in a rearguard action, that would have forced a return to the reservations sooner than what was the case after the battle. In either case the difference would have been measured in months or weeks, plus fewer US casualties, as there was no doubt about the long end result. I have never been one to be too judgemental towards Reno and Benteen, as they were put in situations I`d never envy any commander to be in. But there are so many things in between the start and end of battle I struggle to wrap my head around and most liekly I will never come to life long conclusions about most of them, since I tend to change my mind about details all to often. Maybe that`s a good thing.
As I wrote previously, learning from people like yourself, fred, quincannon and others has been and is something of great value to me on this subject.
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Post by montrose on Jun 14, 2017 16:12:54 GMT -6
One of Custer's contemporaries had the same view that you do, Custer should have kept his regiment together. You may have heard of him, U.S. Grant.
If you plan to write an article, I think that is a good thesis. This battle was winnable if the 5 company main body had stayed with the advance guard and fought in the valley. As a soldier you understand that command and control was nonexistent at LBH.
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Post by noggy on Jun 15, 2017 3:25:32 GMT -6
The process of researching for the article has just really steamed up (I`m translating way to direct here) a life long interest in the battle, as apart from Geman military history the Indian Wars is my maybe biggest field of interest (again, I suspect translating phrases into English makes this look very weird). The article will just be a very general thing for a popular science-ish Magazine. My interest is way more in-depth than that piece will ever be. That`s why I`m here.
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 25, 2017 4:28:42 GMT -6
Welcome noggy, just returned from the battlefield. Hope you continue to post and engage with fact based theory and opinion.
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Post by noggy on Jun 25, 2017 10:53:56 GMT -6
Welcome noggy, just returned from the battlefield. Hope you continue to post and engage with fact based theory and opinion. Thank you for the welcome, tubman. If all goes according to plan, I`ll visit the battlefield myself in the spring or summer of 2019, looking at pictures isn`quite the same.
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 26, 2017 7:04:41 GMT -6
noggy, while at the battlefield I visited some areas not generally visited by most. We entered the preservation land via the old entrance to the park and got a very good look at the Ford D area. Very interesting.
I also had the opportunity to spend a few minutes with Marcus Reno's great, great, grandnephew. Quite a gentleman, a very knowledgeable reenactor. All in all a well spent week.
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Post by noggy on Jun 26, 2017 7:49:09 GMT -6
noggy, while at the battlefield I visited some areas not generally visited by most. We entered the preservation land via the old entrance to the park and got a very good look at the Ford D area. Very interesting. I also had the opportunity to spend a few minutes with Marcus Reno's great, great, grandnephew. Quite a gentleman, a very knowledgeable reenactor. All in all a well spent week. That sound just fantastic, tubman. As you can imagine, travelling from our remote corner of Europe to the middle of the US isn`t as easy as just getting on the 5 o`clock bus, so it`s a long time of both planning and saving money involved in the whole thing. But I`m sure it will be great when the time comes and I look very much forward to it even if I do not expect to walk about outside the regulated zone or meet relatives of participants.
I might say I`m related to John Sivertsen (-son) and see if that gets me somewhere!
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 26, 2017 10:11:15 GMT -6
Born 10 Dec. 1841 in Jensen, Norway, died 30 Aug 1925 in Washington, DC
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 26, 2017 10:14:06 GMT -6
Were the personal items found in 1994 ever returned to the family?
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Post by noggy on Jun 26, 2017 10:56:57 GMT -6
Were the personal items found in 1994 ever returned to the family? Do you mean his family in Norway? I could not imagine it. The US army up until 1900, as far as I remember, had almost half it`s members born outside the US. It mirrored in the 7th as well. Norway had on of the largest percentages of emigrants to the USA and Canada (only beaten by Ireland), including many thousands who served in their new countries` armed forces; already during the ACW something like 6 000 signed up to fight. I think there are more descendants of Norwegians immigrants living in Canada and the States than in Norway today. Family ties were severed pretty fast in those days as generations came and went, and the parts of the family trees became strangers. Often it took only a decade or two. Most Norwegians today who have relatives living over there know of the fact that they do, but seldom more than that. In my family`s case, a sister of my grandmother`s mother moved to Canada around 1900 but first recently did my mother managed to find out what their names is and where the live today. No contact has been made. I know Sivertsen married at some point, and if he had a family it would be the one living on your side of the pond and who should get any belongings. A side note: There were two Norwegians in the 7th at LBH. The other guy was Olaus Hansen, whose poor handwriting resulted in his first name being interpreted as "Olans". I have not cross-checked and Wagner`s "Participants" isn`t here so I can, but I do believe he very well was the only one to fight at and survive both Shiloh and Little Bighorn.
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Post by gabithompson730 on Aug 2, 2017 8:49:26 GMT -6
hi nice to meet you
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