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Post by crzhrs on Apr 6, 2017 7:09:33 GMT -6
<He had about 900 hostiles against his 140 or so men, many of which were Indian scouts hunting Sioux ponies, what should he have done?>
While Reno felt there were large numbers of warriors facing him he had no idea just how many. The 900 number came years later from Benteen at the RCOI.
Everyone (then as now) expected Reno to do with three companies what Custer couldn't do with five companies. Reno's decision to retreat (regardless of how it was handled) saved his command . . . Custer's decision to keep going cost him and his entire command to be wiped out.
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Post by dave on Apr 6, 2017 7:44:08 GMT -6
If not 900 what would a more accurate number be? Would not the smoke, dust, timber/undergrowth coupled with shock make it very difficult for Reno to have an idea of how many hostiles he was facing? Were his Indian scouts of any assistance? They were not expected to fight where they?
Reno was a man fated to be disliked it seems. He had no charisma or leadership qualities that stood out or remembered today. Custer and Benteen have overshadowed him and his poor social skills insured he would never be admired or respected. He truly had a cloud over his head always! Regards Dave
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 6, 2017 10:11:05 GMT -6
It would be impossible for Reno or anyone with him to estimate the number of Indians other than it was a lot of them! The warriors were riding their horses back and forth in front of the village kicking up dust and providing a "smoke screen" not only to confuse the soldiers but to provide cover for non-coms fleeing.
Once Reno halted he set up skirmishers and for the most part held their own until warriors started to go around his left flank forcing a fall back into the timber. Warriors set fire to brush which was green from Spring growth and rather than burning smoldered creating smoke to mask any infiltration of warriors. Confusion was rampant for the soldiers with very little communication between companies. I believe Reno was asking Bloody Knife what was going on or what to do when BK had his brains blown all over Reno.
Reno may or may not have lost his composure but he did call out (paraphrase): "Anyone who wishes to make their escape follow me" resulting in an uncoordinated and for the most part every-man-for-themselves retreat resulting in heavy losses but the majority of the men escaped and survived.
Some of the white and/or mix scouts including Herendeen remained in the timber and were of no use once Reno left.
The Indian scouts/guides main orders were to capture horses, not to fight. However several did and died in the timber or fled out of the area and to safety.
There was no way to estimate the number of warriors. One frontiersmen said trying to count Indians is like stirring up a ant hill and try counting the ants as they came out!
Regardless there were more than Reno, let alone Custer could deal with. Reno's decision (good, bad, right, wrong) saved his command. Custer's decisions (good, bad, right, wrong) resulted in his and his entire command's death.
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Post by dave on Apr 6, 2017 10:44:48 GMT -6
I find it amazing that with all the conditions mentioned in czrhrs's post how a modern day Clausewitz wannabe can loudly proclaim that Reno should have held out for at least another 30 minutes in the timber area. As mentioned, the communications sucked and not all heard Reno's command but there were no good options left to the man. Regards Dave
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lens
New Member
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Post by lens on Apr 6, 2017 10:52:48 GMT -6
As I mentioned in a previous post I grew up with Reno and Benteen being the goats and Custer was the betrayed Hero. In Terrible Glory one would be hard pressed to find a chapter that did not mention Reno, coward, drunk, and flask. I hope I have not given the impression that I felt that Reno should have held his position. I have to read more and look at more maps to see if a rear guard action would have even been possible. All I have read so far says it was, but heck I am only this board and 5 books into this journey. I haven't even landed let alone scratched the surface. Thank you all for your insights and sharing your wealth of knowledge. I have not tied a fly in weeks. Have to hit the bench, AFTER I finish the current two books.
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Post by edavids on Apr 7, 2017 4:55:44 GMT -6
I find it amazing that with all the conditions mentioned in czrhrs's post how a modern day Clausewitz wannabe can loudly proclaim that Reno should have held out for at least another 30 minutes in the timber area. As mentioned, the communications sucked and not all heard Reno's command but there were no good options left to the man. Regards Dave The only weapon the individual you refer to ever mastered is the dog brush and his target adolescents from perhaps 2 feet. If the JSIT scenario warrants consideration (and it does!) then Custer had no intention of supporting Reno and any 30 minute stand would have been Reno's last. Heck, study Fred's fine Strategy of Defeat and by his estimation any action at Ford B was nominal and well after Reno's "charge". Best, David
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Post by dave on Apr 7, 2017 8:27:37 GMT -6
As I mentioned in a previous post I grew up with Reno and Benteen being the goats and Custer was the betrayed Hero. In Terrible Glory one would be hard pressed to find a chapter that did not mention Reno, coward, drunk, and flask. I hope I have not given the impression that I felt that Reno should have held his position. I have to read more and look at more maps to see if a rear guard action would have even been possible. All I have read so far says it was, but heck I am only this board and 5 books into this journey. I haven't even landed let alone scratched the surface. Thank you all for your insights and sharing your wealth of knowledge. I have not tied a fly in weeks. Have to hit the bench, AFTER I finish the current two books. Lens All you have done is to show that as a fair minded adult, you have chosen to delve further into the mystery known as the Battle of the Little Big Horn. You have to have a beginning for any journey and you started with the popular vision from our youths in the 1940's and 1950's of Custer the hero betrayed by Reno and Benteen, like so many others. We are all students, learning more every day and often changing opinions and thoughts based on new discoveries and further study. You are doing a good job of gnawing on the bones of this homeric battle as indicated by the responses from others. If you were behaving as an addled duck none would reply to your posts. Just be sure when tying flies not to use any hair brushes or bristles and you will be fine. Regards Dave
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