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Post by Diane Merkel on Nov 30, 2016 15:23:44 GMT -5
Friends,
Fred informed me this morning of the death of Elisabeth Kimber. All I know so far is that her funeral will be on Tuesday, December 6, presumably in England.
Those of you who knew Elisabeth through these boards are welcome to post comments on this thread, and I will prepare a permanent memorial thread to her in the near future.
For those who didn't know her, Elisabeth was a brilliant woman who contributed to these boards for a number of years. She especially admired Miles Keogh.
I have missed her for years and will now miss her for eternity.
Diane
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Post by fred on Dec 1, 2016 9:12:01 GMT -5
Elisabeth Kimber was on these boards when I first joined back in September 2005.
She was probably-- along with her nemesis, Dark Cloud-- the most brilliant person who had ever posted here. She and I became good friends and even when she dropped off the boards (too much bickering with Dark Cloud), we stayed in touch, primarily through Christmas cards.
Elisabeth lived in England... was, in fact, English. She lived in a town located right smack on the southern coast with a beach on the English Channel. She was also a member of the CAGB and was extremely interested in Myles Keogh, actually buying-- at auction-- a couple of his letters and donating them to the Keogh family for a museum or some such thing at his home in Ireland.
She and I had more in common than just the Little Big Horn and American history. She was an editor, here in the U. S., for the Reader's Digest, which, oddly enough, was located in Pleasantville, New York, where my wife is from and where we lived. She had retired, however, by the time we "met" here and had moved back to her England. In my opinion, losing Elisabeth, here, was this board's greatest loss and marked the end of what I would refer to as its halcyon days. It survives, however, and I believe it always will, especially with some of the more interested people here.
I shall miss Elisabeth, in life, even more than I missed her here... despite my efforts to get her back to the site. Elisabeth Kimber knew more of American history than anyone I knew or know and there is no hyperbole there. Her knowledge of the Little Big Horn was vast and her interest-- despite her departure-- never waned.
God speed my friend. I shall think of you often... and only with the deepest regard and utmost kindness... because that is who you were.
Very best wishes,
Fred.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Dec 1, 2016 13:59:23 GMT -5
Beautifully said, Fred. Thank you.
Diane
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Post by shan on Dec 4, 2016 9:55:08 GMT -5
Diane, Fred,
and the many others who will no doubt wish to add their condolences.
As a long time non poster I feel the need to come back to mourn the passing of Elizabeth. She was a veritable tower of information, information which was reasonably argued and always politely put.
In my time I'd had a few spats with D.C, but then I'd also had my share of favourable comments from the old curmudgeon, nevertheless, I found it very hard to forgive him for the way that he hounded Elizabeth, especially given that his side swipes were, by and large, rather childish rather than well argued. It took awhile, but in the end I did my best to forgive him, but that's another matter.
In many ways she was a lost talent, and by that I mean an absolute fountain of knowledge, one that we could have all benefited from.
I'd always hoped that she might come back, but she didn't, I'll miss her.
David ~~Shan
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Post by fred on Dec 4, 2016 12:41:17 GMT -5
I'd always hoped that she might come back, but she didn't, I'll miss her. David, Me too. Me too. Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by fred on Dec 7, 2016 6:25:27 GMT -5
Diane & Fred, Ms. Kimber , from the accolades that I've read, sounds like a person with "character", a trait in short supply these days, what with the cookie-cutter response to any suggestion of deep thinking by the pundits who should know better. I would have enjoyed her dialogue and knowledge... Pequod Robb, She was truly a person of character. She was-- I believe-- a few years younger than I am. She was diagnosed with lung cancer in June and given six months to live. As far as we all know, she had no family, no close relatives. Apparently she checked herself into a hospital recently and died there. Her funeral was yesterday and according to her wishes, she was cremated. I have always missed Elisabeth after she left here. Knowing now what I know of these circumstances makes me miss her even more. Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by Diane Merkel on Dec 9, 2016 13:12:49 GMT -5
Thank you for the additional details, Fred. It has been my experience with both family and friends that, when they give you six months, that's all you'll have. I'm sorry I didn't know she was ill during that time as I would have let her know how special she was to me. I hope she knows now.
To all of you -- including my critics -- you are very important to me. You may not agree with me, but your opinions matter and are respected. I've always wanted this to be a place for the formation of enduring friendships.
Diane
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Post by hunkpatila on Dec 11, 2016 12:09:52 GMT -5
Elisabeth your passing has left a hole in the fabric of my life. You were a true friend with a generous heart, a brilliant mind and endless knowledge. You shared so much with me and my life will be the poorer without your support and encouragement.
You will rest with the good guys and I know that Myles Keogh will be there with you.
No day shall erase you from the memory of time.
Hunk
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Post by Yan Taylor on Dec 12, 2016 6:53:17 GMT -5
Hi Hunk, is that you?
Please try and get in touch, as I have missed you mate.
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Post by hunkpatila on Dec 12, 2016 17:27:28 GMT -5
Ian,
Yes, it is.
I'll e-mail you soon.
Hunk |
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Post by Kentishman on Dec 12, 2016 20:08:52 GMT -5
I suspect I was one of the few members of this Board not only to have corresponded with Elisabeth Kimber but also was privileged to have met her at several Gatherings of the Custer Association of Great Britain. During my tenure as Literary Editor of that organisation's biannual journal, The Crow's Nest, I was closely involved in the publication of three of her excellent Keogh-related articles, namely, 'Nowlan Speaks – a short piece on a letter written by Nowlan to Miss Keogh' (Autumn/Winter 2006); 'A Fortnight with Sheridan - Keogh and the 1868 Campaign' (Spring/Summer 2008); and 'Keogh's Private Gettysburg Battle' (Spring/Summer 2009). Elisabeth was great company, had a superb command of the written word and an encyclopaedic-knowledge of Keogh in particular but the Battle of the Little Big Horn and other participants in general. I believe she passed her 70th birthday earlier this year. Elisabeth's contribution to the 'Custer Story' and her friendship will be sorely missed.
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Post by hunkpatila on Dec 13, 2016 14:57:51 GMT -5
I suspect I was one of the few members of this Board not only to have corresponded with Elisabeth Kimber but also was privileged to have met her at several Gatherings of the Custer Association of Great Britain. During my tenure as Literary Editor of that organisation's biannual journal, The Crow's Nest, I was closely involved in the publication of three of her excellent Keogh-related articles, namely, 'Nowlan Speaks – a short piece on a letter written by Nowlan to Miss Keogh' (Autumn/Winter 2006); 'A Fortnight with Sheridan - Keogh and the 1868 Campaign' (Spring/Summer 2008); and 'Keogh's Private Gettysburg Battle' (Spring/Summer 2009). Elisabeth was great company, had a superb command of the written word and an encyclopaedic-knowledge of Keogh in particular but the Battle of the Little Big Horn and other participants in general. I believe she passed her 70th birthday earlier this year. Elisabeth's contribution to the 'Custer Story' and her friendship will be sorely missed. Amen to that. |
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Post by herosrest on Feb 17, 2017 2:05:37 GMT -5
Robert Doyle April 17, 2009 SourceAside from the inaccuracies detailed by E. Kimber above, most of what Deanne Stillman writes about Myles Keogh is utter rubbish. I am not, per say, blaming the author but the sources for her information on Keogh being a wild drunk have long been discredited. The “swaggering bibulous soldier of fortune” nonsense comes from Van De Water in Glory Hunter. He and the dreaded Fred Dustin were hobnobbing (via correspondence at least) when VDW was writing the book, so no doubt it’s a piece of gratuitous embroidery on the “information” Dustin got from a cavalry deserter. That Keogh drank is not in dispute; almost everyone did in those post-Civil-War days. That he sometimes drank to excess is not disputed either. Mrs. Custer, in her book Following the Guidon, fixed that image of him for all time with her anecdote about the Irish officer who “sometimes became so hopelessly boozy” that he had thought it wisest to turn all his worldly goods over to his striker [his soldier-servant] for safe-keeping. But it was the indefatigable Fred Dustin, purveyor of the “Wild I” myth, who added in the “brute” element, with a story about a drunken Keogh chasing offending troopers and beating them with his cane. His source for this is dubious — a self-confessed deserter — and the conclusions that others have drawn from it (“hated”) are at variance with much evidence that in fact Keogh was uncommonly well-liked by the men. A C. Rallya, in Winners of the West: “Every man in our troop idolised Captain Keogh”. Sergeant John Ryan: “a good-hearted officer”. Blacksmith Henry Bailey: “a nice man”. Lt. Henry Nowlan (pictured right): “… his brave troopers, who dearly loved him …”. An unnamed former 7th Cavalry private: “The names of most of the leading men of the 7th have left me. But a few can still be recalled. There was Captain Gillette of C Troop, a wild reckless officer who had little regard for God, Man or the Devil. Capt. Keho [sic] was just the opposite. He acted as chaplin [sic] and called all the men ‘my boys'”. Keogh’s first biographer, Edward S. Luce, was deeply suspicious of the Dustin story, having had the privilege of asking Mrs. Custer herself about the truth of the matter. She dispelled for Luce any notion that Keogh was “a mean drunk”; she said he was never belligerent “in his cups”, but always benign, happy, and inclined towards singing. She went on to describe him as unfailingly gentle by nature. She knew him; Dustin did not; we can draw our own conclusions. linklink
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Post by gary on May 16, 2017 3:24:03 GMT -5
I have only just seen this thread and would like to add a meagre tribute to Elisabeth's memory. As others have said, she was a true scholar and very good company. She had a particularly wry sense of humour. Although to my knowledge she only produced the three articles that Peter (Kentishman) refers to, I was privileged to attend a talk that she gave on Keogh, and once spent an entertaining lunch in Chichester with her and the late Peter Harrison (author of 'Monahsetah') discussing Keogh's comments in his private letters upon the subject of female Indians captured by the US Army. The English westerners' Society has a draft article by Elisabeth that Francis Taunton is in the process of editing with a view to publishing it in the next year or so.
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Post by Diane Merkel on May 16, 2017 7:27:26 GMT -5
Gary,
Thank you for adding your comments about Elisabeth. I commented to Fred a couple of days ago that I still have not produced a memorial thread for her because I hate the thought that she is gone. I will do it soon and include your comments.
Best wishes,
Diane
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