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Post by jodak on Apr 2, 2016 15:07:55 GMT -6
I would surmise that many officers, Custer included, used a number of different sabers during the CW and afterwards. Just as we might have dress clothes and work clothes, it would seem possible, or even likely, that many officers had both "dress" and "work" sabers. The former would be the ones that might be highly decorated and engraved, including the owner's initials, while the latter were probably more or less standard issue with no identifying marks. During the course of the war it was probably common for sabers to be dropped, broken or damaged in battle, or otherwise lost, with the result that many officers likely progressed through several of them by war's end. When a new one was needed they may have simply found a suitable one on the field, drawn a new one from stores, traded with another officer, or any number of other ways that might account for the lack of identifying markings or even those of someone else.
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Post by Beth on Apr 2, 2016 16:31:38 GMT -6
I agree but I have a feeling that this sword might have stayed with the owner for quite a while since that isn't a standard scabbard as far as I can tell. I'd like to think it was probably the a gift from his family at graduation since they were both politically well connected as well as financially or ACMP could have bought it himself. I wonder if Tiffany's would have records about who had the sword engraved because I would almost bet that they did the work. If not there are enough sword scholars out there who could give leads about who might have giv
The scabbard though I find to be extremely interesting and would love to see more pictures of it, to get more clues as to when the sword and scabbard came together.
I'd also love to know when and how the sword got separated from it's history and how it got in such poor condition. It's the kind of thing that families tend to keep.
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Post by edavids on Apr 2, 2016 18:20:56 GMT -6
Fred, This girl(sexist me, besides she is younger than us)does good work. She can be a real bulldog when she goes after something. Very much results oriented. I still hope she turns up at the LBH this year.
Regards, Tom
Thanks for the high praise. I love to find answers because search is so fun. Unfortunately I will not be able to make it to LBH. I've been putting off making a decision because I might have to have back surgery however my daughter called on Wednesday to tell me she really thought we needed to make a trip to Iowa to see my mother 'one more time'. She has failing health and Sam was concern at how much Mom had changed from Sam's stay with Grandma at Thanksgiving and then at spring break. Beth I hope and pray fir the best possible outcome with your Mom and peace for everyone else. Best, David
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Post by tubman13 on Apr 2, 2016 18:45:01 GMT -6
Beth, I wish that as well. Regards, Tom
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Post by Beth on Apr 2, 2016 20:13:46 GMT -6
Thanks everyone. One of the best things about being part of the LBH community is the friendships I have developed.
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Post by Pvt G Pyle on Apr 3, 2016 16:53:20 GMT -6
Hi, No other marking near the hilt other than the Roby in cursive that is pictured above.
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Post by Pvt G Pyle on Apr 3, 2016 17:05:58 GMT -6
What is the provenance on the sword that makes you certain it belonged to Custer. There is nothing with that engraving really connects it directly to Custer. For example at first glance those tents look like teepees but I suspect they are sibley tents. Also I found a Union officer who actually has the initials ACMP Alexander Cummings McWhorter Pennington JrYou might want to take a look at this page link which shows a Roby sword with extremely similar markings and engraving. I've also found a Foot officer's sword that is similar. If you want to get more information about the sword I suggest you include a picture of the hilt, hand guard as well as the length of the blade which would make it a whole lot easier to identify which type of sword it is. More information about Roby link
Hi Beth, Here is what I know from another site that was talking about the saber back in 2008..... " This is not the only cutting weapon Custer left to posterity. Colonel Brice C.W. Custer had two of the General's sabers. Both were the 1860 model, light cavalry saber. One blade was stamped "USA" near the hilt, and on the other side, "ACMP", with some fancy scrollwork below. Both now belong to Colonel George A. Custer III". And without giving any further info I know for a fact it is still in the family.
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Post by benteen on Apr 3, 2016 17:22:00 GMT -6
Beth,
I join Dave and Tom in my sentiment and prayers for your Mom.
Be Well Dan
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Post by Beth on Apr 3, 2016 20:55:30 GMT -6
What is the provenance on the sword that makes you certain it belonged to Custer. There is nothing with that engraving really connects it directly to Custer. For example at first glance those tents look like teepees but I suspect they are sibley tents. Also I found a Union officer who actually has the initials ACMP Alexander Cummings McWhorter Pennington JrYou might want to take a look at this page link which shows a Roby sword with extremely similar markings and engraving. I've also found a Foot officer's sword that is similar. If you want to get more information about the sword I suggest you include a picture of the hilt, hand guard as well as the length of the blade which would make it a whole lot easier to identify which type of sword it is. More information about Roby link
Hi Beth, Here is what I know from another site that was talking about the saber back in 2008..... " This is not the only cutting weapon Custer left to posterity. Colonel Brice C.W. Custer had two of the General's sabers. Both were the 1860 model, light cavalry saber. One blade was stamped "USA" near the hilt, and on the other side, "ACMP", with some fancy scrollwork below. Both now belong to Colonel George A. Custer III". And without giving any further info I know for a fact it is still in the family. I am familiar with the conversation. It gets mentioned post 27 on this page and also on another LBH board The first sword described fits C. Roby blades. Here is one on the other board dated in 2005 Here are pictures several Link The AGM is the inspector's mark. Several members of the Custer family are on the Little Bighorn Association Facebook page. You might want to post your pictures and questions there since they absolutely would be the best authorities on the sword. One has to be very careful about items that might have a connection with Custer because the collectable world is rife with items that have dubious paperwork.
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Post by Pvt G Pyle on Apr 4, 2016 3:51:00 GMT -6
Hi Beth, Here is what I know from another site that was talking about the saber back in 2008..... " This is not the only cutting weapon Custer left to posterity. Colonel Brice C.W. Custer had two of the General's sabers. Both were the 1860 model, light cavalry saber. One blade was stamped "USA" near the hilt, and on the other side, "ACMP", with some fancy scrollwork below. Both now belong to Colonel George A. Custer III". And without giving any further info I know for a fact it is still in the family. I am familiar with the conversation. It gets mentioned post 27 on this page and also on another LBH board The first sword described fits C. Roby blades. Here is one on the other board dated in 2005 Here are pictures several Link The AGM is the inspector's mark. Several members of the Custer family are on the Little Bighorn Association Facebook page. You might want to post your pictures and questions there since they absolutely would be the best authorities on the sword. One has to be very careful about items that might have a connection with Custer because the collectable world is rife with items that have dubious paperwork.
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Post by Pvt G Pyle on Apr 4, 2016 3:59:20 GMT -6
Hi Beth, I am actually helping a "family" member (of which I am a member of thru marriage) with trying to find info on the ACMP. Thanks for the info on Pennington. We will look to see what kind of connection he had with GAC.
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Post by tubman13 on Apr 4, 2016 4:01:46 GMT -6
G. Pyle, I am, obviously, no expert in this arena. Are you looking for valuation, to buy, or to market the piece? In any event, if I were in the market solid provenance. As you know the value of that sword/saber is one thing, but proof of ownership by GAC would place it in a totally different thing. I own two, one cavalry saber and one naval sword, both passed to me. One from the daughter of the owner and the other from the son of the owner. The value of the two would cover a couple days for the grandchildren and me at Disney world. Different ballgame!
Regards, Tom
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Post by tubman13 on Apr 4, 2016 4:06:09 GMT -6
Pennington graduated a year before Custer and served under him as Col. of 3rd NJ Cav., in the Valley Campaign.
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Post by Pvt G Pyle on Apr 4, 2016 15:38:08 GMT -6
G. Pyle, I am, obviously, no expert in this arena. Are you looking for valuation, to buy, or to market the piece? In any event, if I were in the market solid provenance. As you know the value of that sword/saber is one thing, but proof of ownership by GAC would place it in a totally different thing. I own two, one cavalry saber and one naval sword, both passed to me. One from the daughter of the owner and the other from the son of the owner. The value of the two would cover a couple days for the grandchildren and me at Disney world. Different ballgame! Regards, Tom Tom, No, not looking to buy/ sell, basically looking for information on the initials ACMP. We were thinking AC= Autie Custer but the MP we couldnt come up with anything. The Pennington angle as stated above makes a lot of sense, now to dig around for anything written about Pennington gifting the saber to GAC.
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Post by Beth on Apr 4, 2016 20:13:01 GMT -6
You might try contacting the Pennington family link
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