Post by Colt45 on Dec 31, 2015 13:50:22 GMT -6
On another board, we have had a lively discussion about JSIT's story of the battle, and how that story, if taken as true, changes much of what has been considered "facts" about the movements of Custer.
Here is a link to his story:
digital.libraries.ou.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/CampbellWS/id/307/rec/41
The map on page 3 shows the Custer battalion moving from LNC directly across Deep Coulee to Calhoun Hill, never approaching Ford B. We have always assumed as fact that accounts like White Bull Cow's referred to the river skirmish as occurring at Ford B. This was always a problem because if Lt Smith was the officer wounded there, why was he found at LSH? It made no sense to haul a wounded officer all the way to LSH, when he could have been left with L company while Custer went north. Now if we assume that the river skirmish occurred at Ford D instead of Ford B, it now makes more sense that Smith was found on LSH. This also helps explain Kellogg being found initially around the Ford D area and the retreat to Cemetery Ridge, with the subsequent delay there.
JSIT also states that the soldiers at Calhoun Hill were the last to die. That scenario would support the north to south battle flow that some have stated occurred. C and L company men found between Calhoun Hill and LSH would also support the south to north battle flow. If we take the JSIT account as accurate, we have no action at Ford B, but initial action at Ford D. Custer is repulsed at the river, but moves to Cemetery Hill to supposedly await the arrival of Benteen and Keogh, who was presumably waiting in the swale, where he could both see Benteen's approach and provide support for his movement into the battle area. As pressure increased on Custer from the north (hostiles crossing at Ford D) and from hostiles coming up Deep Ravine, Custer most likely felt the need to deploy E company along the SSL to stem the flow. While all this is happening, L company, who was left behind to guard Custer's rear from Indians crossing at Ford B, are finding more pressure than they can handle. As they begin to break and flee north toward Keogh, Keogh gets hit from the south, east, and west. I company appears from their markers to have been caught from 3 sides almost at once. As Keogh is getting hit, Custer and F company are already on LSH dealing with the Indians from the north and west. LSH, Keogh sector, and Calhoun Hill were probably all engaged at the same time, with Calhoun Hill falling last, if we believe JSIT.
This is one theory that fits with his story, and it doesn't pose any problems that I can see with Fred's timelines in "Strategy", which I think are pretty much on the money.
One big problem, though, is how does C company fit into this. I can see Custer leaving one company at Calhoun Hill to guard his rear, as they have already engaged Wolf Tooth, and can see the hordes coming across Ford B. I can also see leaving a company behind to watch for Benteen and to support his movement into the battle area with the slow-moving packs. But with only 5 companies, why would he leave a third company behind, only approaching the ford with two companies? We have always assumed that C company charged down the coulee from Calhoun Hill, went too far and were forced back. But what if C company was with E and F at Ford D? If C company deployed on the left flank of E company when they deployed from Cemetery Hill, this would put them spreading across Deep Ravine above the headcut, which would have been further west in 1876 than it is today
C company, if in that position, would have been getting fire from both the Deep Ravine infiltrators and the Indians on GGR. If we assume the Indians were able to drive a wedge between C company and E company, C would have nowhere to go but into Calhoun Coulee and FF ridge. In this scenario, they would have been retreating toward Calhoun Hill, not charging down from it. When you look at the pattern all the markers make, it is a large circular shape, so this is a possible scenario to account for where the C company markers appear.
All of this assumes that JSIT's story is accurate. Since he walked the battlefield with Wolf Tooth, his story, though second-hand, has a ring of truth to it. And as a former military man, I have always had trouble believing Custer would leave behind 3/5ths of his combat power and only move toward the river with 2/5ths. I can see leaving a rear guard, and an escort for Benteen, and advancing to the river with 3 companies, but C company being left behind is a bewilderment since at the time they all reached Calhoun Hill, they were not under any severe pressure. Leaving one company as a rear guard makes sense given the light pressure at the time.
The positives of assuming JSIT's account is accurate are it explains why Algernon Smith was found where he was, and positions the river fight at Ford D. Plus it helps account for why C company men were found in the various locations they were found in. It also helps support the argument that Calhoun Hill was where the real last stand occurred. It also fits with the timelines of the battle, in particular, Fred's. The big unresolved item in this scenario is C company's movements. Were they left behind with L company? Did they go with E and F? Was the "charge" of C company conducted down from Calhoun Hill or was it the movement from Cemetery Hill southward along SSL? I am not sure we can ever know for sure about C company, but if JSIT's story is true, it makes sense to believe C company had gone with E and F initially toward Ford D.
Ok, time to shoot holes in JSIT's story and my theories based on that story.
Here is a link to his story:
digital.libraries.ou.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/CampbellWS/id/307/rec/41
The map on page 3 shows the Custer battalion moving from LNC directly across Deep Coulee to Calhoun Hill, never approaching Ford B. We have always assumed as fact that accounts like White Bull Cow's referred to the river skirmish as occurring at Ford B. This was always a problem because if Lt Smith was the officer wounded there, why was he found at LSH? It made no sense to haul a wounded officer all the way to LSH, when he could have been left with L company while Custer went north. Now if we assume that the river skirmish occurred at Ford D instead of Ford B, it now makes more sense that Smith was found on LSH. This also helps explain Kellogg being found initially around the Ford D area and the retreat to Cemetery Ridge, with the subsequent delay there.
JSIT also states that the soldiers at Calhoun Hill were the last to die. That scenario would support the north to south battle flow that some have stated occurred. C and L company men found between Calhoun Hill and LSH would also support the south to north battle flow. If we take the JSIT account as accurate, we have no action at Ford B, but initial action at Ford D. Custer is repulsed at the river, but moves to Cemetery Hill to supposedly await the arrival of Benteen and Keogh, who was presumably waiting in the swale, where he could both see Benteen's approach and provide support for his movement into the battle area. As pressure increased on Custer from the north (hostiles crossing at Ford D) and from hostiles coming up Deep Ravine, Custer most likely felt the need to deploy E company along the SSL to stem the flow. While all this is happening, L company, who was left behind to guard Custer's rear from Indians crossing at Ford B, are finding more pressure than they can handle. As they begin to break and flee north toward Keogh, Keogh gets hit from the south, east, and west. I company appears from their markers to have been caught from 3 sides almost at once. As Keogh is getting hit, Custer and F company are already on LSH dealing with the Indians from the north and west. LSH, Keogh sector, and Calhoun Hill were probably all engaged at the same time, with Calhoun Hill falling last, if we believe JSIT.
This is one theory that fits with his story, and it doesn't pose any problems that I can see with Fred's timelines in "Strategy", which I think are pretty much on the money.
One big problem, though, is how does C company fit into this. I can see Custer leaving one company at Calhoun Hill to guard his rear, as they have already engaged Wolf Tooth, and can see the hordes coming across Ford B. I can also see leaving a company behind to watch for Benteen and to support his movement into the battle area with the slow-moving packs. But with only 5 companies, why would he leave a third company behind, only approaching the ford with two companies? We have always assumed that C company charged down the coulee from Calhoun Hill, went too far and were forced back. But what if C company was with E and F at Ford D? If C company deployed on the left flank of E company when they deployed from Cemetery Hill, this would put them spreading across Deep Ravine above the headcut, which would have been further west in 1876 than it is today
C company, if in that position, would have been getting fire from both the Deep Ravine infiltrators and the Indians on GGR. If we assume the Indians were able to drive a wedge between C company and E company, C would have nowhere to go but into Calhoun Coulee and FF ridge. In this scenario, they would have been retreating toward Calhoun Hill, not charging down from it. When you look at the pattern all the markers make, it is a large circular shape, so this is a possible scenario to account for where the C company markers appear.
All of this assumes that JSIT's story is accurate. Since he walked the battlefield with Wolf Tooth, his story, though second-hand, has a ring of truth to it. And as a former military man, I have always had trouble believing Custer would leave behind 3/5ths of his combat power and only move toward the river with 2/5ths. I can see leaving a rear guard, and an escort for Benteen, and advancing to the river with 3 companies, but C company being left behind is a bewilderment since at the time they all reached Calhoun Hill, they were not under any severe pressure. Leaving one company as a rear guard makes sense given the light pressure at the time.
The positives of assuming JSIT's account is accurate are it explains why Algernon Smith was found where he was, and positions the river fight at Ford D. Plus it helps account for why C company men were found in the various locations they were found in. It also helps support the argument that Calhoun Hill was where the real last stand occurred. It also fits with the timelines of the battle, in particular, Fred's. The big unresolved item in this scenario is C company's movements. Were they left behind with L company? Did they go with E and F? Was the "charge" of C company conducted down from Calhoun Hill or was it the movement from Cemetery Hill southward along SSL? I am not sure we can ever know for sure about C company, but if JSIT's story is true, it makes sense to believe C company had gone with E and F initially toward Ford D.
Ok, time to shoot holes in JSIT's story and my theories based on that story.
