Custer fluidly moving from offense to defense, Aug 4 1873

[magpie]

Sergeant Windolph describes Custer moving from offence to defense during the Yellowstone Campain in 1873. {I edited, I put Circa date originally as I was unclear of date initially}

Before I condense and paraphrase Windolph who endorses a newspaper account of the engagement that he and Custer experienced the purpose is to confirm or deny it.

Windolph's newspaper clipping (quote) say's Custer is his own recon patrol, he finds then leads the chase of a band of Indians, on the chase he figures out they are fiending retreat attempting to draw his army into heavy cover and ambush. Custer wheels around and goes back to his troops. Custer and co. then see 250 Indians march (yes march with better order than the US army) out of the Timber (heavy cover). Custer pulls back to where two streams run parallel ( two tributaries? an oxbow ? ). The situation is so desperate that he calls 6 horses to a holder and uses the extra men to put a skirmish line across the two water ways. He sends horse holders and horses to the rear where there is some Timber. A box or horse shoe defense is established. The Indians attack. The soldiers get lucky and bring down a chief. A standard bearer (pole with feathers) goes to the chiefs aid and is hit. Two more Indians try to aid their stricken leader and are hit. Custer see's an Indian behind the horses wheels and leads a counter attack. It's successful and later they find the footprints of 40 Indians behind the horses. The Indians break off the attack and move away.

I believe Windolph is telling us that Custer is not one to become obsessed with his target. That he is not afraid to go on the defensive and live to fight another day. That he can change rapidly and flawlessly between offence and defense. That he can make adjustments to rigid doctrine (4 horses to a holder to 6 horses to a holder). That he has good situational awareness. Windolph is a Benteen man, he has no love for GAC.

One of the things I like about Windolph is he was there and after retiring from the army he settled in the Dakota's and so the area became his home.

So this is the target. Who can bring it into focus, who can prove it false or true? 

All are welcome but bring a piece of research to the party.                                             {I EDITED THIS 10/18/15}

[magpie]

Since posting I have found with the help of Herosrest in a July 21,1876 newspaper (North-west): Sheridan is quoted as saying "In a former expedition against the Sioux he (Custer) made a very rash dash, and came within an ace of being cut off and slaughtered with his command". I also found on History.com a comment about a battle on 8/4/73 where they trivialize the action as one dead soldier and one dead Indian. Obviously if Sheriden is speaking about it he's not trivializing it. I read one of General Stanely's reports of the expedition and he doesn't mention it but perhaps it's in a seperate report?

[magpie]

Again with the help of Herosrest who found Custer had written a magazine article about the action. "Battling with the Sioux on the Yellowstone" by G.A.Custer. "The Galaxy" Jul. 1876;Vol. XXII.,No. 1. This is journalism and the trueth is often bent. I hope somewhere the official Army reports will be found. Non the less this article gives us a clear glimpse of Custer, his mind set, his capabilities. He doesn't admit error (Sheridan's "rash dash" and almost "slaughtered" show his superiors judgement of the action) but is very flexable. It differ's from the Tribunes description in 3-400 Indians, being drawn across a linear ambush and not into the timber but along. It differs in that instead of two streams it's a horseshoe defence with it's back to the Yellowstone. Custer spots but doesn't personally go against the Indian going for the horses but sends Varnum and there is 100 warriors not 40 in this action. Also a chief on horseback is hit by Custer (personally) and Bloody Knife. The main column is seen coming to Custers rescue and then Custer resumes offence in counter attack. Also Custer drops to one horse holder to 8 horses here.

I think the Article is a must read as it shows Custer's opinion of The Indians is that they are better fighters and better horsemen and always thinking and planning. Our only advantage is discipline and if there is an opportunity to win we are willing to take casualties that they are not willing to. I think this flies in the face of current thought of a reckless obsessessed individual that is popular in our age. Custer also seem's to recognize his close shave.

[edavids]

Oct 19, 2015 10:21:41 GMT -6 magpie said:

Again with the help of Herosrest who found Custer had written a magazine article about the action. "Battling with the Sioux on the Yellowstone" by G.A.Custer. "The Galaxy" Jul. 1876;Vol. XXII.,No. 1. This is journalism and the trueth is often bent. I hope somewhere the official Army reports will be found. Non the less this article gives us a clear glimpse of Custer, his mind set, his capabilities. He doesn't admit error (Sheridan's "rash dash" and almost "slaughtered" show his superiors judgement of the action) but is very flexable. It differ's from the Tribunes description in 3-400 Indians, being drawn across a linear ambush and not into the timber but along. It differs in that instead of two streams it's a horseshoe defence with it's back to the Yellowstone. Custer spots but doesn't personally go against the Indian going for the horses but sends Varnum and there is 100 warriors not 40 in this action. Also a chief on horseback is hit by Custer (personally) and Bloody Knife. The main column is seen coming to Custers rescue and then Custer resumes offence in counter attack. Also Custer drops to one horse holder to 8 horses here.

I think the Article is a must read as it shows Custer's opinion of The Indians is that they are better fighters and better horsemen and always thinking and planning. Our only advantage is discipline and if there is an opportunity to win we are willing to take casualties that they are not willing to. I think this flies in the face of current thought of a reckless obsessessed individual that is popular in our age. Custer also seem's to recognize his close shave.

Thank you, Magpie, for this info.  I think the primary difference between Custer the Indian Fighter of 1873 v. 1876 is perhaps desperation.  The Belknap situation had not happened yet in 1873, Custer hadn't been suspended from command, perhaps his debts hadn't piled up quite so badly, etc.  In 1873 he had been thru a suspension for his 1867 antics but at that time possibly largely forgotten (I never remember if the saying is "Time Heals All Wounds" or "Wounds All Heels" - maybe both are accurate).  I'm no psychologist but the Custer of June 1876 seems impatient, driven, tunnel visioned (narrowly focused?) and possibly even depressed.  We'll never fully know what was on his mind obviously. 

In short, Custer's ability to be flexible during combat and take advantage of terrain features in 1873 was obviously missing badly in 1876.

[magpie]

Oct 19, 2015 11:07:44 GMT -6 edavids said:

Oct 19, 2015 10:21:41 GMT -6 magpie said:

Again with the help of Herosrest who found Custer had written a magazine article about the action. "Battling with the Sioux on the Yellowstone" by G.A.Custer. "The Galaxy" Jul. 1876;Vol. XXII.,No. 1. This is journalism and the trueth is often bent. I hope somewhere the official Army reports will be found. Non the less this article gives us a clear glimpse of Custer, his mind set, his capabilities. He doesn't admit error (Sheridan's "rash dash" and almost "slaughtered" show his superiors judgement of the action) but is very flexable. It differ's from the Tribunes description in 3-400 Indians, being drawn across a linear ambush and not into the timber but along. It differs in that instead of two streams it's a horseshoe defence with it's back to the Yellowstone. Custer spots but doesn't personally go against the Indian going for the horses but sends Varnum and there is 100 warriors not 40 in this action. Also a chief on horseback is hit by Custer (personally) and Bloody Knife. The main column is seen coming to Custers rescue and then Custer resumes offence in counter attack. Also Custer drops to one horse holder to 8 horses here.

I think the Article is a must read as it shows Custer's opinion of The Indians is that they are better fighters and better horsemen and always thinking and planning. Our only advantage is discipline and if there is an opportunity to win we are willing to take casualties that they are not willing to. I think this flies in the face of current thought of a reckless obsessessed individual that is popular in our age. Custer also seem's to recognize his close shave.

Thank you, Magpie, for this info.  I think the primary difference between Custer the Indian Fighter of 1873 v. 1876 is perhaps desperation.  The Belknap situation had not happened yet in 1873, Custer hadn't been suspended from command, perhaps his debts hadn't piled up quite so badly, etc.  In 1873 he had been thru a suspension for his 1867 antics but at that time possibly largely forgotten (I never remember if the saying is "Time Heals All Wounds" or "Wounds All Heels" - maybe both are accurate).  I'm no psychologist but the Custer of June 1876 seems impatient, driven, tunnel visioned (narrowly focused?) and possibly even depressed.  We'll never fully know what was on his mind obviously. 

In short, Custer's ability to be flexible during combat and take advantage of terrain features in 1873 was obviously missing badly in 1876.

I am entertaining the theory the Indians were 2 step's ahead and yes Custer was driven by the Indians like buffalo as the Indians have maintained for 140 years.

[custermania]

That’s all true when things are going good. But you can’t compare LBH to this. He knew this was likely his last chance at a big fight. He said cpl nights before it was brevet or death. And yes I understand that was there saying. But just a few nights before LBH he blasted Reno for not going after 1500 warriors with what 100? Custer had money issues, he had grant and reps after him. He was already shamed in public. Not sure if he was a narcissist but if he was that could lead to ill show Grant who’s going to win and take the glory. I mean he purposely rode his troops to no sleep so he could beat everybody by two days and attack first. Plus IMO the attack was so bad could you imagine him coming back with only half of his troops and Indians free? This Custer imo was victory or death. He called Mitch a coward just for suggesting there was to many.