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Post by edavids on Sept 9, 2015 10:57:38 GMT -6
Steve You obviously have got to learn to play golf. Stay away from the masses and swing a club on the course. When you get homesick for the desert just play from the sand traps. This way you have an excuse to drink beer and quit dealing with other peoples problems. You can always get a part time job at the golf course as a WAIT FOR IT a Ranger!! You will get a red flag instead of a blue light and a radio to call in offenders. Doesn't sound like fun? Stay safe. Regards Dave Hi Dave I live in Flagstaff at around 7,000 feet of elevation. It is Ponderosa pine forest. A round of golf here cost more than a year long hunting and fishing license. I would like to play golf like the Duck Commanders. Go to a driving range and shoot the golf balls out of the air. We do drink beer just don't drive under the influence. We includes NPS officers and Coast Guard officers that I work with while on the lake. I have a great time in Montana and we drink some beer there also. Dos Equis tastes great in Montana. I am sure Tom can attest to that. Regards Steve Life at altitude is great. Moved to Ft Collins CO 3 years ago, shade under 5000 feet and will never look back. I bet our beer is better here than in Flagstaff but only one way to share the wealth and verify and it t'aint from behind the wheel.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Sept 9, 2015 11:20:09 GMT -6
Hi Dave I live in Flagstaff at around 7,000 feet of elevation. It is Ponderosa pine forest. A round of golf here cost more than a year long hunting and fishing license. I would like to play golf like the Duck Commanders. Go to a driving range and shoot the golf balls out of the air. We do drink beer just don't drive under the influence. We includes NPS officers and Coast Guard officers that I work with while on the lake. I have a great time in Montana and we drink some beer there also. Dos Equis tastes great in Montana. I am sure Tom can attest to that. Regards Steve Life at altitude is great. Moved to Ft Collins CO 3 years ago, shade under 5000 feet and will never look back. I bet our beer is better here than in Flagstaff but only one way to share the wealth and verify and it t'aint from behind the wheel. Worked out of the office here since 1979 and moved here in 1992. Oak Creek Brewery is hard to beat. Steve
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Post by edavids on Sept 9, 2015 11:53:15 GMT -6
Life at altitude is great. Moved to Ft Collins CO 3 years ago, shade under 5000 feet and will never look back. I bet our beer is better here than in Flagstaff but only one way to share the wealth and verify and it t'aint from behind the wheel. Worked out of the office here since 1979 and moved here in 1992. Oak Creek Brewery is hard to beat. Steve Quantity and quality. Fun to see who is right on this one. Either way we win! google "Fort Collins Breweries" and you will see what I mean about beer connoisseurs heaven.
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Post by dave on Sept 9, 2015 12:44:12 GMT -6
Well Both of you knuckleheads can caddie for me. You carry the clubs, Tubbman the beer and Steve can go into the woods to find my lost shots. I wonder if there any golf courses near the Little Big Horn Battlefield? It's an idea. Regards Dave We could bring Chris to keep score and Beth drive the cart. After all it is about me, right?
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Post by edavids on Sept 9, 2015 13:05:18 GMT -6
Well Both of you knuckleheads can caddie for me. You carry the clubs, Tubbman the beer and Steve can go into the woods to find my lost shots. I wonder if there any golf courses near the Little Big Horn Battlefield? It's an idea. Regards Dave We could bring Chris to keep score and Beth drive the cart. After all it is about me, right? Will save a table at the 19th Hole for everyone!
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Post by Beth on Sept 9, 2015 13:07:21 GMT -6
Well Both of you knuckleheads can caddie for me. You carry the clubs, Tubbman the beer and Steve can go into the woods to find my lost shots. I wonder if there any golf courses near the Little Big Horn Battlefield? It's an idea. Regards Dave We could bring Chris to keep score and Beth drive the cart. After all it is about me, right? Spoken like a true golfer.
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Post by dave on Sept 9, 2015 15:47:20 GMT -6
Beth What's your point? I am graciously sharing my outing with everyone right? I guess you could bring some BBQ so we would have a snack at the 19th hole. I have a course and await the date to reserve a tee time. Regards Dave www.fortcustergolfclub.com/
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Post by Beth on Sept 9, 2015 17:36:29 GMT -6
Dave the sad truth is I am not a good cook. I keep my family fed but I would never make it on Masterchef. On the other hand I wouldn't make it on Worse Chef in America either.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of local eateries that are already on the must visit list.
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Post by dave on Sept 9, 2015 17:51:02 GMT -6
Heavens forbid any cooking. I was thinking takeout because we will be on vacation in Montana no work. Regards Dave
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Post by jodak on Sept 10, 2015 6:01:26 GMT -6
There are a couple of aspects of the concept of Terry using Tullock as a route that I struggle with. Jodak, It isn't so much that Terry would have or even wanted to use it as a route, he would have wanted to know if it were clear. Obviously, if Indians were in it, he would have had to confront that issue. He wound up in the LBH valley not knowing if Tullock's was clear or if Indians had made their escape that way. In essence, while he is dithering along Tullock's Ridge, his rear is exposed and his intelligence is incomplete. Some condemn Custer for incomplete or faulty intelligence. Custer's actions robbed Terry of needed intel as well as a choice of which route to take. To me, that is unforgivable... how do you allow a subordinate to do such a thing? Best wishes, Fred. It occurs to me that it is possible that Custer's intent in not sending Herendeen was to force Terry to delay. If you believe in the theory that Custer wanted to fight the battle alone and receive all of the credit/glory for himself, causing Terry to delay as he ascertained the status of Tullock's would fit nicely with that.
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Post by fred on Sept 10, 2015 7:35:14 GMT -6
It occurs to me that it is possible that Custer's intent in not sending Herendeen was to force Terry to delay. If you believe in the theory that Custer wanted to fight the battle alone and receive all of the credit/glory for himself, causing Terry to delay as he ascertained the status of Tullock's would fit nicely with that. Personally, I do not really believe that of Custer. I do, however, believe he was wrestling with his orders and what he should do. If you remember, early that morning-- this is the 24th-- Custer told Herendeen to head off for Tullock's. Both Herendeen and Boyer told Custer it was too early, that the gap in the western bluffs leading to Tullock's was still farther up the Rosebud valley. Afterwards, they reached other Indian encampments and the trail was reported being considerably fresher. Custer ordered a four-hour halt, ostensibly (according to Tom Heski) to allow Varnum to reconnoiter the diverging trail up Lame Deer Creek. I do not, however, believe that. I think Custer needed the time to make a decision: the trail was reported to branch off toward the LBH valley; and the decision he needed to make was whether or not to follow the strict interpretation of his orders, or to bypass those orders and head directly for the LBH valley. He had not decided on whether to attack-- or not-- but in that four-hour hiatus, Custer made the decision to ignore Terry's order to go all the way up the Rosebud. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by montrose on Sept 10, 2015 8:42:05 GMT -6
Follow the decision matrix.
By refusing to send Herendeen, LTC Custer forced BG Terry to go to the Big Horn, and not move up Tullocks.
The challenge here is that a LTC deliberately chose to force this decision on his superior general officer. Every other officer in the US Army at this time, or any time, would have send a messenger. Let the commander know the situation, and make his own decision.
Fred has made an argument that the deliberate refusal to follow orders to scout up the Rosebud, vice follow trail to LBH valley, was deliberately disobeying orders. It was, but commanders of detached elements have a certain degree f leeway.
I see no leeway in LTC Custer's refusal to send Terry's messenger, as ordered. It just supports the theory that Custer was a decent company grade officer, completely unsuited for field grade duties.
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Post by montrose on Sept 10, 2015 8:59:52 GMT -6
Jodak wrote, " It occurs to me that it is possible that Custer's intent in not sending Herendeen was to force Terry to delay. If you believe in the theory that Custer wanted to fight the battle alone and receive all of the credit/glory for himself, causing Terry to delay as he ascertained the status of Tullock's would fit nicely with that."
1. The Malice theory. LTC Custer showed enormous malice towards his superiors, his peers, and his subordinates 1865-76. He was a scoundrel, with no integrity or honor. But many scoundrels have had success at war.
2. Incompetence. I think a better prism to understand LTC Custer is that he was incompetent at company and field grade command. He was a better than average brigade and division commander in the American Civil War (ACW). Yet he had only a few weeks experience at company grade, and not a single day at field grade.
I am amused how the Custer fanboy fanatics ignore his court martial conviction. He should have been dismissed as OTHD from that day.
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Post by fred on Sept 10, 2015 9:13:21 GMT -6
... commanders of detached elements have a certain degree f leeway. Absolutely, but Tullock's wasn't among them. Totally agree. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by tubman13 on Sept 10, 2015 11:12:36 GMT -6
Dave the sad truth is I am not a good cook. I keep my family fed but I would never make it on Masterchef. On the other hand I wouldn't make it on Worse Chef in America either. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of local eateries that are already on the must visit list. It's K.P for you, after you drive the cart. Steve or I will handle the BBQ. You partake of the BBQ, golf, any adult beverage you wish, but I won't allow you to scuttle the feast! Decorum and proper dietary needs are more important than your feelings. Sorry. Chris can come along for grounds keeping duties.
Regards, Tom
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