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Post by tubman13 on Jul 15, 2015 5:04:31 GMT -6
I came to this board in advance of a planned trip to the LBH in January of 2014. After a short period of questioning of my opinions and stated background, I found it a welcoming place. I learned much for that planned trip. A number of members gave me enough information to better plan my agenda. I met a member on that trip and spent more time this past June with that member and others at the LBH, really more than I could have asked for. While DC and I will probably not be able to get beyond Cheyenne SEALS, he was also instrumental helping me enjoy my experience here. Montrose, Quincannon, Fred, and WO made me think. AZ supplied far more than common sense, he filled in many blanks. Ian, thank you for diversity. Dave & Beth thanks for asking questions I probably would have never thought of and eliciting answers that really helped along the way. Colt, you bring much to the table, regarding weapons, common sense and military ways. Mac, Jodak, Rebcav, Callmeconrad, and others have brought much to this game. Chris, I did/could not forget you, you are a great sounding board and a wealth of knowledge. Much like dessert I just saved the best for last. Boy this is windy for me, also not well written, why change now.
Over the last 6 or so months we have had a disrupter in our midst, who came to this board with an agenda. When that agenda did not fly, the only recourse this disrupter decided he had was harass and belittle. Our absentee moderator comes back at the end of this period and could not quell the situation. The moderator thought her cancer experience, was more important than another member here. I think both situations are of equal import. The names and posts of scarface(varied #'s),asshole(varied #'s), and ecafracs remain. While the message function is disabled, a post by another member seems to have been taken down, and a regular poster has been banned. No way to run a railroad, or maybe it is, in that the passenger service in this country has been a failure for years.
After airing all of that, I do mean thank you. I have many trees to cut up and a pasture that needs work. Won't be nearly as active in the near term.
Regards, Tom
P.S. Mac, I understand your trip and plans are still in place for Colorado, enjoy.
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Post by fred on Jul 15, 2015 7:12:58 GMT -6
Well… I guess I need to chime in here, especially since there seem to be people feeling sorry for themselves.
First of all, I see no missing posts other than the vituperative drivel Mark/Ecafracs put up, and if you notice, his initial post referring everyone to another site remains. Taking down posts is not Mrs. Merkel’s M. O., so I would suggest the originator has taken down his own posting, if missing.
Second, the only person banned has been Mark. If Treese were banned his named would be deleted from the bottom row of sign-ins, his avatar would go blank, and his name next to his posts would show up in “white.” So, like so much more here, it appears we do not know how the mechanics of the board work. I am assuming there is a device “disabling” an account and I would assume again, there is a time-limit factor involved, otherwise why “disable” at all?
As for Treese himself, I suggest one look at his record before one rallies around his flagpole. First of all, Mr. Treese, aka, “brittles,” was kicked off the LBHA/Rini boards for precisely the same thing he has done here over time. Virtually every complaint Mrs. Merkel has had, through Proboards, has been about Treese. Some of these were trivial; some were not; and in at least two cases, entire threads had to be removed because of the complaints. Removal of these threads is extremely time-consuming and Mrs. Merkel—who everyone seems to be blaming for everything—felt it important enough to go through every post, many of them years old, because there were valuable data that should be saved for posterity… or whatever, as some will scoff.
In addition, Treese has attempted to make these boards his personal fiefdom—one may be interested in seeing how many times he has posted versus his date of joining, then comparing that figure to others who have been here considerably longer—and in the years I have known him I do not recall him ever—not once—welcoming a new member. Instead, his latest tactic is these PMs, invariably and privately accusing the newcomer of having some sort of agenda or attitude because he doesn’t immediately fit into whatever profile Treese is favoring at the moment. This is precisely what happened to Mark/Ecafracs/et al. I may add, NO ONE comes on these boards without some sort of agenda, even if it is only to learn. Mark fit that profile… but Mark’s problem was he took the opposite tact of precisely what Bill Rini has accused this site of becoming: anti-Custer. Mark became anti-Benteen, anti-Reno (I suspect, partially as rebellion) and because of his “agenda” he was universally ignored. I will admit, I was part of that problem, naively thinking it would never reach the proportions it eventually reached. And in fact, I even broke the “rules” established in that long-winded PM Treese began, communicating with Mark, both publicly and privately. In essence, Treese turned these boards into his personal domain, peopled only by those he deigned worthy… including me: to a point. And has anyone noticed the lack of posts by longer-time members who used to be here more frequently?... non-members of Treese’s personal clan? Hmmm?
When Treese found I was going against the beginnings of his vituperative harangue against Mrs. Merkel, he summarily dismissed me from that group with the comment, “You have been removed from this conversation.” PERIOD!!! Case closed!!! Well, ladies and gentleman… no one… NO ONE dismisses me like that, especially not someone with the educational, life-experiences, social mores, and contrived aesthetics of a person like Chuck Treese. Sorry ’bout that, but that’s just a fact. (I might also suggest—for those who disagree with my attitude about Mrs. Merkel, go back into that PM and see precisely what I wrote… and how long it was.) If my dismissal were not enough, he subsequently sent me this long, rambling, garbled, rather squalid, and semi-lucid e-mail accusing me of revealing PMs—which is as far from the truth as possible: the information he accused me of revealing, he himself posted publicly prior to the accusation. Fact, again!! He concluded his disjointed diatribe with the following sentence: “Personal honor is one thing when lost that can never be regained.” (There!!! I have revealed that!!! Based on the track records of the two of us, I feel quite secure in knowing my “personal honor” has not been sullied… certainly not here. As for Mr. Treese, I might suggest he figure out what honor really is (I think we may add decency to that as well) before he accuses others of not having any. If he feels his is in tact, then his standards are considerably lower than even I believed.
I have a suggestion… all the members here should get back to what attracted us to these boards in the first place and that includes the digressions into other areas of interest. Instead of hanging on as if this place were a personality cult, we should enjoy a hardy and spirited discussion, in a collegial atmosphere, trying to remain or aspire to being “ladies” and “gentleman” and trying to learn, regardless of “agendas” (those should be handled by Mrs. Merkel). Every time “Montrose” posts something, I learn; that is why I am still here. (And—unlike some—Montrose’s posts are not laced with Wikipedia impedimenta.) I would hate to see any of you leave because of this, but if you must, please do, never to return, deleting your account on the way. Needless to say, I, personally, am extremely disappointed if departures occur—I will miss those I have considered “friends” (at one time, that included Mr. Treese, but my friendships do not come with qualifiers, disclaimers, or caveats!!)—but these boards have survived the loss of far more than what we have lost here so far; if this is a low point, they will turn and rise again.
If I owe anything—in the way of borrowed books, notes, pictures, etc.—to any of you I have offended or any of you wishing to depart, please let me know and I shall return them immediately… my library is a tangled mess right now and I am not sure what I owe and to whom. That will further delineate friendships and “allegiances.”
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by welshofficer on Jul 15, 2015 8:29:47 GMT -6
I came to this board in advance of a planned trip to the LBH in January of 2014. After a short period of questioning of my opinions and stated background, I found it a welcoming place. I learned much for that planned trip. A number of members gave me enough information to better plan my agenda. I met a member on that trip and spent more time this past June with that member and others at the LBH, really more than I could have asked for. While DC and I will probably not be able to get beyond Cheyenne SEALS, he was also instrumental helping me enjoy my experience here. Montrose, Quincannon, Fred, and WO made me think. AZ supplied far more than common sense, he filled in many blanks. Ian, thank you for diversity. Dave & Beth thanks for asking questions I probably would have never thought of and eliciting answers that really helped along the way. Colt, you bring much to the table, regarding weapons, common sense and military ways. Mac, Jodak, Rebcav, Callmeconrad, and others have brought much to this game. Chris, I did/could not forget you, you are a great sounding board and a wealth of knowledge. Much like dessert I just saved the best for last. Boy this is windy for me, also not well written, why change now.
Over the last 6 or so months we have had a disrupter in our midst, who came to this board with an agenda. When that agenda did not fly, the only recourse this disrupter decided he had was harass and belittle. Our absentee moderator comes back at the end of this period and could not quell the situation. The moderator thought her cancer experience, was more important than another member here. I think both situations are of equal import. The names and posts of not a very nice person(varied #'s),not a very nice person(varied #'s), and ecafracs remain. While the message function is disabled, a post by another member seems to have been taken down, and a regular poster has been banned. No way to run a railroad, or maybe it is, in that the passenger service in this country has been a failure for years.
After airing all of that, I do mean thank you. I have many trees to cut up and a pasture that needs work. Won't be nearly as active in the near term.
Regards, Tom
P.S. Mac, I understand your trip and plans are still in place for Colorado, enjoy. Tom,
Thanks for the kind words.
There is clearly so much ill-feeling and bad blood at the moment that I see no benefit in anybody further posting publicly about it at the moment, and I do not propose to pour any more oil on the fire. Let's just let matters settle down. There are people here with serious health issues, Beth, William, and Diane amongst others, to put life in perspective.
The message function is not disabled, in fact it cannot be disabled on Proboards, and you just have to go to your own profile and click on "send message" to find all your personal messages. As a very temporary anti-"Mark" device, the messages tab on the home screen was simply removed.
I will send you a personal message, just as I used that very function to warn Diane that "Mark" was starting to spiral out of control when his meltdown began in earnest and that she would have to become more active than perhaps desirable for her health.
WO
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 15, 2015 10:55:28 GMT -6
I am hesitant to chime in here, but I think it's time I once again state what I see as my role here. The word moderator has been used to describe me throughout the history of these boards, but I have never seen myself in that way. Administrator might be a better word for my role as I just try to keep things going and put out fires when necessary. I seldom get involved in discussions and am content to let people use these boards to exchange ideas and opinions. That's it. No other agenda.
I am thankful to those who have hung in there through the years and remained active, especially Fred who has taken on the Herculean task of defending me, but I am not going to beg anyone to stay here. I also hesitate to boot people off the boards. Some of you may think I tolerate fools for too long, but I remain hopeful that some good can come from all.
Since several of you apparently enjoy talking about me, let me share my views about you.
Quincannon = Pain in the arse coward. You were responsible for all of the abuse complaints I had to answer from ProBoards, a process that cost me many hours of precious time. You would contact me with your tail between your legs, promising to behave yourself, and then go back to the same behavior. You have tried to dominate these boards lately (see Fred's excellent narrative above) and have run off a lot of people who would have been very welcome here. You don't have the courage to address me directly -- you just bitch behind my back -- so you are a coward. Your account has been disabled; I don't think you will be missed.
Tubman - I don't have a full picture of your personality but think you are probably a good guy. However, I resent your characterization of me above when you know NOTHING about me. To say I thought my "cancer experience, was more important than another member here" is beyond despicable. Have fun with the cow chips.
Welsh Officer = Always the gentleman. Thank you for that. I removed the Messages link to make it a bit more difficult to send mass messages, especially when they were bitching about me, but I have restored it for my own convenience.
Fred = A former officer and still a gentleman. I treasure your friendship. Thank you.
There are others who deserve thanks, but I don't want to expose them since they haven't posted publicly. You know who you are, and I thank you for your support.
I want these boards to be a place where anyone of any age and education can come to ask questions and exchange ideas. If that does not fit your criteria for an effective forum, then go somewhere else or start your own. If it does fit your criteria, then please know you are welcome here and you are encouraged to exchange information or ask questions without someone bullying you.
Best wishes, Diane
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Post by fred on Jul 15, 2015 11:00:52 GMT -6
For what it is worth, I do not believe Tom Tubman meant anything bad by his comment. I have met him; I have spoken with him on the phone... he is a good guy. I think, however, he may be caught between what he views as loyalties and allegiances and that always hurts; it always takes a bit of time to figure out. We shall see from Tom's future participation.
Welshofficer is one of the very best, anywhere, at any time. He is a consummate pro, both as a British army officer, as a gentleman, and as a man.
I let the rest stand as they are perceived.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by welshofficer on Jul 15, 2015 11:46:33 GMT -6
Diane,
I should perhaps add one thing, to clear up one misunderstanding that has arisen.
As regards "apparently enjoy talking about you", I was also a party (as were many others, including Fred) to the private conversation that I think provoked Fred's surprising open post in defence of you. If it was something else or additional of which I am unaware and not included, then you should ignore the following.
To put in context, that conversation was in excess of 130 pages and there was a long list of recipients. Whilst I was seldom following the thread in any close detail, the posts where I can recollect your name ever being mentioned I could probably count with the fingers on 1 hand. All of those posts that I recollect were directed at your administrator rather than moderator style, and recently in specific reference to the all out attack on the forum by one poster repeatedly banned. Different people have different ways of expressing themselves, but I think some tempers were fraying about "not a very nice person". Having militarily policed Belfast, Londonderry, Banja Luka and Basra amongst others, I am a little more sanguine about such idiots as "not a very nice person" than perhaps some others. He would get bored of repeated bans many years before I lose interest in the Centennial Campaign of 1876 and stop posting.
Whilst I cannot say for certain that I did not miss something within the private conversation that was totally unacceptable, there was nothing that I saw that caused me to even mildly rebuke anyone within the private conversation. I was certainly surprised to see Fred's earlier open post about you on three grounds (1) I also did not recollect his having rebuked anybody within the private conversation, (2) I did not feel that you had been maligned (I accept I could easily have missed a post that Fred did not miss, but I do not propose to wade back through over 130 pages of them to find it), (3) agreed confidentiality had been breached by Fred. To put further in context, both my private forum message inbox and my personal e-mail inbox have filled up recently with complaints from numerous posters. Nearly all communications, with the exception of one about your deleting one thread created by Beth whilst keeping all the garbage from "not a very nice person" post first banning, have been in relation to Fred's breach of confidence. Far more people have issues with Fred's discussing a very small element of a private conversation in public than with your administrator style.
This is a mess. Some valued posters have been lost, and I expect other valued posters will shortly walk. It's just sad that some posters out there like "not a very nice person" take advantage of your laissez faire approach of treating them like sensible adults, and are so thoughtless as to think you have nothing better to do with your life after your serious illness other than to spend all day and night blocking their accounts and deleting their imbecilic posts.
So there has not been lots of talking about you, at least to which I have been a party, and what there has been has been in relation to "not a very nice person" taking advantage of your administrator approach.
WO
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Post by welshofficer on Jul 15, 2015 11:50:00 GMT -6
For what it is worth, I do not believe Tom Tubman meant anything bad by his comment. I have met him; I have spoken with him on the phone... he is a good guy. I think, however, he may be caught between what he views as loyalties and allegiances and that always hurts; it always takes a bit of time to figure out. We shall see from Tom's future participation. Welshofficer is one of the very best, anywhere, at any time. He is a consummate pro, both as a British army officer, as a gentleman, and as a man. I let the rest stand as they are perceived. Best wishes, Fred. Fred,
Unless something privately or publicly happened that I missed, I do have some issues with the open post you did about Diane.
Others exploded, but that is not my style. But it did surprise me, because I have always found you beyond reproach.
WO
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Post by chris on Jul 15, 2015 11:52:26 GMT -6
I will not take sides here, just saying that the discussions were a joy to read and hope we get back to it one day. Tom, thank you for the kind words - took more from you than I gave. BEST wishes to all c.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jul 15, 2015 12:48:40 GMT -6
I am just getting my head around this mess, every board I have been part of has its ups and downs, board members in general are very different in all extremes, as it would be a boring world indeed if we all acted the same.
I must say that the fall out between the two major board members in Chuck and Fred has hurt me, these two are major players on this board and have not only helped me with acts of kindness but also others and it would be wrong if I didn't set that straight.
That parasite asshole who tested everyone's patience, is probably gloating right now, you could say that he had his views but I know from first hand that he annoyed the hell out of over ten members, some of these members had the patience of a saint and tried to do dialog with him, but in the end they failed, they ended up kicking him into touch because they lost hope, so he then tries to disrupt and ruin this board, so when I hear of talk about Chuck being a bad member and needs to be banned, just remember asshole and there you will see what a bad member looks like.
PS, I must add that one person has bullied and drove away more members than any other from this board and has never once been pulled up, perhaps I should have made a complaint when it was at its height, but no, only wingers go complaining to the boss, I would rather take it standing up.
Respectfully and with sadness
Ian.
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Post by fred on Jul 15, 2015 12:51:50 GMT -6
... (3) agreed confidentiality had been breached by Fred. To put further in context, both my private forum message inbox and my personal e-mail inbox have filled up recently with complaints from numerous posters. Nearly all communications, with the exception of one about your deleting one thread created by Beth whilst keeping all the garbage from "not a very nice person" post first banning, have been in relation to Fred's breach of confidence. Far more people have issues with Fred's discussing a very small element of a private conversation in public than with your administrator style. This is an absolute bald-faced crock. I have never breached anyone's confidentiality or request for confidentiality in my entire life and I certainly wouldn't begin with the pettifogging bullshit I am seeing here. What I did do was allude to a "long-winded" PM, entertained by a number of posters, but the information Diane got regarding her "moderating" came from a public post of Treese's, not from me. You can all believe it or you can all go to hell, I could not care less. I have lived by my word my entire life and I utterly refuse to even entertain comments I have betrayed a trust, especially from the likes of someone like Chuck Treese. All you need to do is look at his record for the truth... and I might add, a record of triteness, vindictiveness, and gossip. If Treese is someone's paradigm of character and honor, then those who believe it need not ever address me or what I post again. I also find it extremely interesting no one, up to this very moment, has had the guts to address me directly about this issue... if they are so concerned. Or is this just more of the lily-livered cowardice so inherent in the masses of sheep I am beginning to see here? Furthermore, I would strongly suggest "the mass exodus" delete their account on the way out. No need for "best wishes" here, for I am not in the mood.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 15, 2015 13:12:41 GMT -6
Thank you, Chris. I also hope we get back to the discussions. Ian, please hang in there. You know this too shall pass. WO and the Others on the 130 Pages: I recall deleting one thread because Scarface posted nasty comments after each and every post made by another. I looked through that thread and didn’t see anything that seemed indispensable to the Little Bighorn topic, so I deleted the entire thing. If that was a mistake, I sincerely apologize. I was just trying to get rid of everything I could find that was nasty as quickly as possible. WO, you are in the UK so you may not be aware of the current feeding frenzy here to get rid of anything and everything to do with the Confederacy. The attack on Fred reminds me of that. Just as the Confederate flag is not responsible for the deaths in Charleston, Fred is not responsible for any actions on my part. It seems you and others jumped to the conclusion that something Fred posted caused me to take action but I am responsible for my own actions. I have had these boards for a long time, and QC isn't the first to cause such problems. (Yes, QC was the root cause.) I deal with things when and how I wish. Unlike others, I don't let one post push me over the edge. I will submit that the perceived betrayal by Fred is also misplaced. What about the betrayal OF Fred? If you will bother to look, Fred started the entire section on Battle Chronology, something few could do, and he has started a lot of other good, solid threads through the years. His posts have kept the boards going in a manner that continues to attract new users. You should be thanking him not condemning him. Now that I've wasted half a day on this, I hope you have seen enough of me for a while. I also hope you all will continue to participate. If you leave, God bless and happy trails! Diane
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Post by dave on Jul 15, 2015 13:41:47 GMT -6
Diane Regardless of what has been said, implied or quoted, I wish to extend my appreciation for establishing this board and the courtesy of being permitted to participate with many good friends. In times like these I am reminded of that ole Southern Gospel "God is great, beer is good and people are crazy." Regards Dave
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 15, 2015 13:49:41 GMT -6
"God is great, beer is good and people are crazy." Love, love, love it!
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Post by Colt45 on Jul 15, 2015 15:56:05 GMT -6
Wow! I lose internet for a few days and it seems the world exploded. Sorry to hear there have been some problems. I have enjoyed conversing with everyone on this board, even scarface, up until the time he got so out of control. I have no animosities with anyone here and hope no one has a problem with me. I really enjoy this board and will remain a member. I think Diane has done a great job with the board and am not one who felt she should intervene every time someone gets a little crazy. My solution to Mark was to just ignore him, then laugh at the dumb stuff he posted.
I hope all you really great posters, Fred, Tom, Justin, Dave, Mac, Montrose, et al, continue posting, because this is how I learn about all the stuff I don't know.
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Post by welshofficer on Jul 15, 2015 16:04:53 GMT -6
Diane,
I am not getting into an argument with anybody over this. What's done is done, and can't be undone. It's simple to me:
(1) Fred knows that I would have reacted differently to his 11 July public post about you if I had been paying close attention, rather than erroneously assuming some public spat had broken out on some thread I wasn't following. I might have staved off this bust-up.
(2) Fred knows that I will have extensively trawled this forum, both using the search function and manually, to see what private and public criticism there has been of you in recent months before writing earlier.
(3) Fred knows there was no public criticism of you capable of being causative of or triggering his 11 July public post.
(4) Fred knows there were several private messages that contained mild criticism of your administrator style when it came to the specific problem being presented by "asshole" in the days leading up to Fred's public post, and that he did not challenge them in the appropriate private thread. Neither did I, so trivial were they without the problem of "asshole".
(5) Fred knows he was deleted from the particular private messages thread, and told the reasons for it i.e. referring in public to things said in confidence in private.
(6) We know Fred knows that he erred in his judgement on 11 July, as there would have been less bluster today and instead references to the alleged posts publicly criticising you. I earlier today wasted considerable time in looking at what was written in public in recent months, particularly regarding "Company F" and "The Valley", and (even stretching it) that could not be considered as criticism warranting his 11 July public post. That was from stuff gleaned from a private messaging thread.
Fred, who I have a very high regard for, erred in his judgement on this one occasion. We have all done it. It's called being human. It was no great deal to me, in itself, and just a matter of disappointment. Others saw the matter differently, and it was not so de minimis that I felt entitled to challenge his removal by them from a private message thread.
We now have a schism on this board. The people leaving will inevitably set-up their own board. Some will stay, some will go, some will try and keep a foot in both camps, some might walk away altogether.
I am not in Quincannon's faction. I don't do factions, or I would have retired 2 ranks higher. If I did factions, I would self-evidently be in the "Custer had an off day" faction, whilst Quincannon would most definitely be in the "Custer never had an on day" faction.
And that's all I publicly have to say on this spat, because I am also now committing the same offence in relation to private exchanges.
It's all very sad, our doing the job of "asshole" for him.
WO
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