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Post by Dark Cloud on May 21, 2015 1:15:42 GMT -6
"The Fredrick Grant incident was in 1874 on the Black Hills Expedition."
Yes. And......? The retribution from Grant, if it was entirely retribution and not just an accurate premonition, was in 1876 when Grant wasn't all that popular in his last year as President following years of decline. He had still previously asked that Custer be removed from the Dakota column through Sherman and Sheridan.
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Post by Beth on May 21, 2015 14:09:03 GMT -6
"The Fredrick Grant incident was in 1874 on the Black Hills Expedition." Yes. And......? The retribution from Grant, if it was entirely retribution and not just an accurate premonition, was in 1876 when Grant wasn't all that popular in his last year as President following years of decline. He had still previously asked that Custer be removed from the Dakota column through Sherman and Sheridan. You keep referring to Jesse, it was Fredrick. it was also before Custer testified in Congress. My point is that, to me the incident really makes me wonder about Custer's political and social acuity. It was in the same time period that F. Grant's grandfather died so he was to travel back to New Jersey for the funeral. Custer wrote Libbie a letter saying that if Col Grant goes to Long Branch via Monroe she was 'do all in her power to make his stay agreeable.' If she knew when Grant was arriving she should meet him at the train station with a carriage and she should have General Grants picture hung in the parlor. I realized last night that I knew there were 3 incidents and included Reno--brain ---- on my part. It was Captain Robert West who brought charges of against Custer over shooting deserters in 1869. Custer in return brought charges against West for drunkenness on duty.
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 21, 2015 17:44:44 GMT -6
I've got to trot these things around my mental paddock before committing to electrons. Frederick was the lush and Jesse was not. Ulysses Jr. was the son who brought Ward into the Grants' life, and again it was not Jesse. Apologies.
Jesse, however, WAS the one who kidnapped the Lindbergh baby, invented the Charleston, killed Judge Crater, shot the last Passenger Pigeon in a zoo, and actually fixed the 1919 World Series for Rothstein. He's the one buried in Grant's Tomb. There, all better.
In a note just handed me..........
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Post by tubman13 on May 21, 2015 18:01:46 GMT -6
Beth, with all your posts here you are becoming quite the "Valley Girl." Regards, Tom
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Post by Beth on May 21, 2015 18:15:07 GMT -6
Beth, with all your posts here you are becoming quite the "Valley Girl." Regards, Tom Like gag me with a spoon. Not even dude, like even if it's a totally righteous title you need to like get real.
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Post by Beth on May 21, 2015 18:36:48 GMT -6
I've got to trot these things around my mental paddock before committing to electrons. Frederick was the lush and Jesse was not. Ulysses Jr. was the son who brought Ward into the Grants' life, and again it was not Jesse. Apologies. Jesse, however, WAS the one who kidnapped the Lindbergh baby, invented the Charleston, killed Judge Crater, shot the last Passenger Pigeon in a zoo, and actually fixed the 1919 World Series for Rothstein. He's the one buried in Grant's Tomb. There, all better. In a note just handed me.......... Have they ever checked Grant's Tomb for Jimmy Hoffa?
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Post by tubman13 on May 21, 2015 18:42:14 GMT -6
I think you meant gag, I hope!
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Post by Beth on May 21, 2015 19:05:30 GMT -6
I think you meant gag, I hope! Thanks. When I was a kid in school I always had to check all around the classroom for something with a g or p in it because I would get confused. Same thing for b and d. That however was just a plain old typo. Beth
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Post by tubman13 on May 27, 2015 5:41:49 GMT -6
Hmmm. On June 25th 1876 George Armstrong Custer and his immediate command were wiped out, an incident that shocked America, in its centenary year. Many questions about that day still remain unanswered or misunderstood. Why did Custer lose a battle that he should have won easily? Why did he fail to support his two commanders after making that support an integral part of the plan? Was there really a plan conveyed? Why did the Indians stand and fight for the first time in the war on the Plains, instead of retreating and fighting a rear guard action? Was this the first time? Why did the most aggressive cavalry officer in the US army fail to make any significant attack against the Indians? Sorry for the rambling.
Regards, Tom
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Post by montrose on May 27, 2015 8:48:24 GMT -6
Hmmm. On June 25th 1876 George Armstrong Custer and his immediate command were wiped out, an incident that shocked America, in its centenary year. Many questions about that day still remain unanswered or misunderstood. Why did Custer lose a battle that he should have won easily? Why did he fail to support his two commanders after making that support an integral part of the plan? Was there really a plan conveyed? Why did the Indians stand and fight for the first time in the war on the Plains, instead of retreating and fighting a rear guard action? Was this the first time? Why did the most aggressive cavalry officer in the US army fail to make any significant attack against the Indians? Sorry for the rambling. Regards, Tom Let me address one point. Was this the first time the Indians fought vice running away? My best guess is that this was at least the 2,000th time, probably north of 10,000. The theory that the Indians always ran away is a myth. It is a fanboy theory unique to LBH, no rational person discusses this in discussions on Indian tactics 1620-1900. LT Kidder died as a direct result of LTC Custer, Ask him if the Indians always ran away. If Markland is still out there, he had a link to thousands of similar examples. In a 20 year period. The Indians normal procedure was to fight. The fact that GAC did not understand that speaks volumes. Hundreds of other officers who fought in the West proved that they understood the Indians better than Custer.
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Post by dave on May 27, 2015 10:02:58 GMT -6
Tom Nice writing. Perhaps Beth allow you to write the opening paragraph of her upcoming and soon to be published book "Down in the Valley with Custer." Y'all would make quite a team! I know for sure that Chris and I would buy a copy---signed of course---and write very nice reviews. Regards Dave
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Post by Beth on May 27, 2015 10:04:11 GMT -6
Hmmm. On June 25th 1876 George Armstrong Custer and his immediate command were wiped out, an incident that shocked America, in its centenary year. Many questions about that day still remain unanswered or misunderstood. Why did Custer lose a battle that he should have won easily? Why did he fail to support his two commanders after making that support an integral part of the plan? Was there really a plan conveyed? Why did the Indians stand and fight for the first time in the war on the Plains, instead of retreating and fighting a rear guard action? Was this the first time? Why did the most aggressive cavalry officer in the US army fail to make any significant attack against the Indians? Sorry for the rambling. Regards, Tom Personally I think one of the biggest myths of Little Big Horn is the "why did Custer lose a battle that he should have easily won." Why should he have easily won? Custer had a smaller force. He was poorer trained and equipped. His troops and horses were exhausted from hard travel and poor diet Custer was facing an well entrenched enemy (I hope I am using term that right). His enemy had the advantage of a being fresh, well feed, well armed and more mobile-plus they were motivated fighters who believed they had their gods on their side and were fighting for their lifestyle. Custer on the other hand shows very little to none of his fiery ability to lead that he had in his youth. He is a middle aged man moving into middle aged thoughts. Custer is showing signs of questioning his future before he leaves FAL. He is the head of a regiment that has insiders and outsides--not good for a force that needs to work together. Custer has surrounded himself with yes men and trusts no one that can offer him council that would allow him to see the bigger picture. Sometimes i think the surprise of LBH is not that Custer lost but that so many managed to survive. Beth
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Post by Beth on May 27, 2015 10:16:33 GMT -6
Tom Nice writing. Perhaps Beth allow you to write the opening paragraph of her upcoming and soon to be published book "Down in the Valley with Custer." Y'all would make quite a team! I know for sure that Chris and I would buy a copy---signed of course---and write very nice reviews. Regards Dave Now if I were to write about LBH, it would be a book similar to Georgette Heyer's Infamous Army--sort of teaching history with a velvet glove. Not to say I haven't thought how it would be possible to do it but I am stuck on a couple of points. Like embedding three fictitious low officers in a battle that is so well know and how to logically get one with Reno in the valley, one with Benteen and one with Custer while still retaining their friendship and avoiding camp politics. Beth Dave, it looks like from the weather map you might to be facing some weather this afternoon and evening. Stay safe.
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Post by dave on May 27, 2015 10:35:04 GMT -6
Tom Nice writing. Perhaps Beth allow you to write the opening paragraph of her upcoming and soon to be published book "Down in the Valley with Custer." Y'all would make quite a team! I know for sure that Chris and I would buy a copy---signed of course---and write very nice reviews. Regards Dave Now if I were to write about LBH, it would be a book similar to Georgette Heyer's Infamous Army--sort of teaching history with a velvet glove. Not to say I haven't thought how it would be possible to do it but I am stuck on a couple of points. Like embedding three fictitious low officers in a battle that is so well know and how to logically get one with Reno in the valley, one with Benteen and one with Custer while still retaining their friendship and avoiding camp politics. Beth Dave, it looks like from the weather map you might to be facing some weather this afternoon and evening. Stay safe. Beth In all seriousness, you would reach far more people with a fictional history of the LBH than most scholarly tomes ever would. Additionally I believe that we have a serious problem with most girls and women who do not study or read about history because it is a guy thing. As you well know, dry facts are not everyone's forte, many more could be exposed to the study of Custer,Libbie and the Little Big Horn. Regards Da PS We always get your weather 24 to 36 hours later. Damn hand-me-downs again
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Post by tubman13 on May 27, 2015 10:56:26 GMT -6
Tom Nice writing. Perhaps Beth allow you to write the opening paragraph of her upcoming and soon to be published book "Down in the Valley with Custer." Y'all would make quite a team! I know for sure that Chris and I would buy a copy---signed of course---and write very nice reviews. Regards Dave Chris only buys 2nd hand! Or was that a cheap shot.
Regards, Tom
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