shaw
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Posts: 187
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Post by shaw on Apr 19, 2015 9:39:33 GMT -6
AZ, Great points on this. I can't help but agree. You bring up an interesting item. When we do look back we need to understand the values of that era when evaluating leadership.
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Post by tubman13 on Apr 19, 2015 12:04:41 GMT -6
Shaw, you also bring up an interesting point. What is more important "values of leadership" or quality of leadership? Is there a difference?
Regards, Tom
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shaw
Full Member
Posts: 187
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Post by shaw on Apr 19, 2015 13:33:39 GMT -6
Quality seems to be an outcome of values. Of course I'm referring to personal or organizational values. Custer was perceived as being "valuable" to the campaign of 1876. In a way, this is different.
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Post by Beth on Apr 19, 2015 20:03:58 GMT -6
Quality seems to be an outcome of values. Of course I'm referring to personal or organizational values. Custer was perceived as being "valuable" to the campaign of 1876. In a way, this is different. Perhaps we need to understand what made Custer qualities so valuable in everyone's eyes in the spring of 1876? Beth
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Post by quincannon on Apr 19, 2015 20:30:02 GMT -6
He was thought to be a better choice than Reno, and Brisbin.
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Post by Beth on Apr 19, 2015 20:46:56 GMT -6
He was thought to be a better choice than Reno, and Brisbin. In all of the army it was just Custer, Reno and Brisbin? Or was it a case of in Dakotas area? Beth
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Post by quincannon on Apr 19, 2015 21:10:54 GMT -6
A bit of both Beth. Those were the three senior cavalry officers in the Department. Brisbin was a fat, unhealthy man who probably could not sit a horse, and should have been out of the Army. I don't believe anyone trusted Reno. No on thought Custer would destroy his regiment, although I don't believe his superiors had any illusions about his ability to perform after eleven years of one screw up after another. He was probably the only choice/best though to be available in an Army that ran on both a territorial and seniority system.
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Post by Beth on Apr 19, 2015 21:43:45 GMT -6
A bit of both Beth. Those were the three senior cavalry officers in the Department. Brisbin was a fat, unhealthy man who probably could not sit a horse, and should have been out of the Army. I don't believe anyone trusted Reno. No on thought Custer would destroy his regiment, although I don't believe his superiors had any illusions about his ability to perform after eleven years of one screw up after another. He was probably the only choice/best though to be available in an Army that ran on both a territorial and seniority system. Thanks. As an old, fat, and unhealthy person, I can appreciate the difficulty Brisbin would have faced. He probably have been used behind a desk not in the field. Reno didn't inspire confidence, regardless of if he was able or not. It is difficult to lead when you can't inspire confidence. If Grant had said no to Custer leading, would Terry have been leading in the field or would Sturgis have reported for duty to FAL? It really limits what an army can achieve when it is so hide bound and territorial. I understand though that at least that territorial part has existed for a very long time and still is around today. Beth
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Post by quincannon on Apr 19, 2015 21:53:25 GMT -6
I meant the territorial part literally. No others were in the territory (department) and they were not about to go outside and bring someone else in for what was considered routine. After Custer was beaten though, all bets were off. They brought in whomever and whatever was needed, which is what they should have done in the first place. If you want the prize, you must be willing to pay the cost.
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Post by Beth on Apr 19, 2015 22:18:13 GMT -6
I meant the territorial part literally. No others were in the territory (department) and they were not about to go outside and bring someone else in for what was considered routine. After Custer was beaten though, all bets were off. They brought in whomever and whatever was needed, which is what they should have done in the first place. If you want the prize, you must be willing to pay the cost. I understood, you don't poach another person's territory-like the law and jurisdictions. Beth
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Post by Beth on Apr 20, 2015 21:38:11 GMT -6
Time to open a thread for the next phase of the battle?
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Post by shan on Apr 2, 2022 5:42:55 GMT -6
So what were those last moments on last stand hill like for those that had gatered there, and how did they last? Well, it certainly took long enough for the bulk of the survivors and their horses to be gunned down, probably from sniper fire coming in from several differnt sources, and given that some of that fire must have gone wide of the mark, I'm guessing that that episode may have lasted for half an hour or so. Could be wrong, probably am, for there are those that will wish to argue that it lasted much longer.
Whichever way, there are several Indian accounts which talk of a sudden rush that overwhelmied what few survivors were left alive, so how many would that be, half a dozen at the most? I suspect that Custer was already dead by then, as were many of the others, but what about those the two movements off the hill? That of E troop ~ a bit contentious given that, given that there are those who think that that particular movement may have oridginated from somewhere around Cemertary ridge a little earlier ~ and a last, final rush towards the river by between 6 and 10 men only moments before the end.
Now without me having to plough through dozens of books, I think most of the Indian accounts seem to agree on this sequence of events, the timing maybe differnt, and maybe the some of locations, but I think they broadly agree. Finally, having recently learnt how to make a link on the other board, I'm going to try and put up a few of my paintings that refer to this part of the battle. .
Shan,
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Post by shan on Apr 2, 2022 5:45:33 GMT -6
Took bit of fiddling, but I think Ive got the hang of it, so I'll pst a few more, Shan. . [
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Post by shan on Apr 2, 2022 5:46:46 GMT -6
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Post by shan on Apr 2, 2022 5:49:17 GMT -6
this last one incidently, illustrates someying a couple of Indians nored, I quote, " the soldiers were firing their guns in the aire as if they didn't know what they were doing."
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