Troopers who ended up on Reno hill

[Yan Taylor]

In my totals I have six Troopers who ended up with Reno.

Pvt John Fitzgerald (C Coy)
Pvt Morris Farrar (C Coy)


Pvt William Reese (E Coy)

Pvt Bernard Lyons (F Coy)
Pvt John Sweeny (F Coy)

Pvt Philip McHugh (L Coy)

Did these men’s horses quit a long with a number of others who’s horses suffered this fate ?, I have checked my totals for Trooper packs and cannot find them , so how did they end up with Reno and not with their fellow Troopers on the Custer battle field.
Ian.

[Dark Cloud]

You're incoherent, yantaylor. Hundreds of troopers ended up with Reno. Do you mean troopers belonging to the five companies under Custer had some members with Reno? Who knows. Oh wait. Your last sentence explains the first. Maybe.

In any case, there were people assigned to the train by company for their particular packs. Is that what you mean by "I have checked my totals for Trooper packs....." and weren't able to find them? And you mean packers, not packs? Find them listed? By who? When you say "my" totals, you mean those tabulated by yourself, or just reading a list compiled by another?

Soldiers were allowed to trade jobs, it seems.

[fred]

Ian,

Fitzgerald, Farrar, Reese, and Sweeny were all stragglers whose horses did or supposedly broke down (Fitzgerald was a malingerer).

Lyons and McHugh were with the packs.

There were a number of other stragglers, as well.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[Yan Taylor]

Thanks Fred, I have a number for the F Coy men detached for Pack trained duty (Trooper packers), now I have included Pvt Lyons it pushes the total up to 13:

Sgt W Curtis
Sadlr C Schleiper
Trp T Finnegan
Trp F Howard
Trp F Hunter
Trp D Lynch
Trp B Lyons
Trp A Pilcher
Trp E Pickard
Trp J Rooney
Trp F Shutte
Trp J Sweeny
Trp T Walsh

Dose this amount seem rather large to you.

Trp William Shields E Coy – was he a medical orderly for Dr. Porter ?, I always wondered if Capt. Benteen left Lt. Gibson in charge of H Coy and formed a small HQ unit to command his battalion, maybe including Dr Porter and Trp Shields.

Ian.

[fred]

Ian,

I am in a rush for time this morning, so I will address your post later today. Remember, most of those who were with the packs from companies A, D, G, H, K, and M are not known... B Company, as well. Those who survived from C, E, F, I, and L are known, but the specifics are not known necessarily. All we know is that six EM and one NCO from each company were assigned; but then there were cooks, strikers, orderlies, which account for the overages. There were also stragglers, nine in all, not counting the scouts who were stragglers.

I will address the specifics you posted when I get home.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[Yan Taylor]

Thanks Fred, I will look forward to it after you go and put Wall Street in order.

Ian.

[fred]

Ian,

The stragglers were privates John Brennan, Morris Farrar, John Fitzgerald, Peter Thompson, and James Watson from C Company; privates William Reese and William Shields from E Company; Private John Sweeney, F Company; and Private Gustave Korn, I Company.

Sgt W Curtis—with the packs.
Sadlr C Schleiper—Lloyd Overfield claimed he was with the packs, but this is incorrect. Most evidence points to him being sick, thereby placing him at the Powder River Depot.
Trp T Finnegan—Overfield says this fellow was with the packs, as well, but again, he is incorrect. Regimental returns place him at PRD, assigned to the wagon train.
Trp F Howard—with the packs.
Trp F Hunter—with the packs.
Trp D Lynch—aboard the “Far West,” taking care of Custer’s luggage.
Trp B Lyons—with the pack train, though one source—PVT Pickard—claimed he was back at Fort Lincoln. Returns prove this incorrect.
Trp A Pilcher—he was on detached service to Department HQ.
Trp E Pickard—he was Yates’ orderly, but was then assigned to the packs, though Jim Willert claimed he was a straggler. Willert was wrong.
Trp J Rooney—with the packs.
Trp F Shutte—this should be spelled, S-H-U-L-T-E. He was assigned to the wagon train at PRD, though some writers have confused this with the packs; they are wrong.
Trp J Sweeny—probably a straggler, though there is a remote chance he had been assigned to the packs. I carry him as a straggler.
Trp T Walsh—remained at the PRD; not at the battle.

Mar 30, 2012 4:21:48 GMT -6 Yan Taylor said:

Trp William Shields E Coy – was he a medical orderly for Dr. Porter?, I always wondered if Capt. Benteen left Lt. Gibson in charge of H Coy and formed a small HQ unit to command his battalion, maybe including Dr Porter and Trp Shields.

No, Shields was not a medical orderly that day; he was a straggler. Greg Michno claimed he was not at the battle—was at PRD, in fact—but Michno is incorrect.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[Yan Taylor]

Hi Fred, was William Shields a Saddler or a Private ?.

Thank you very much Fred, have a nice weekend.

Ian.

[fred]

Mar 31, 2012 7:19:18 GMT -6 Yan Taylor said:

... was William Shields a Saddler or a Private?

Ian,

You are welcome. Shields was the company saddler.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[Yan Taylor]

Thanks Fred your info has been great, it may have messed up my totals but at least my lists are nearly finished and I know the data is sound, so thanks again.

Hey remember when me, you and Chuck had a little chat a while ago concerning Stug IIIs, well I found this, it’s a Russian Stug III.

www.balagan.org.uk/war/ww2/snippet/su76i.htm

I have seen a picture of this vehicle before, but lost the link.

Ian.

[usmcprice]

Apr 1, 2012 13:38:46 GMT -6 Yan Taylor said:

Thanks Fred your info has been great, it may have messed up my totals but at least my lists are nearly finished and I know the data is sound, so thanks again.

Hey remember when me, you and Chuck had a little chat a while ago concerning Stug IIIs, well I found this, it’s a Russian Stug III.

www.balagan.org.uk/war/ww2/snippet/su76i.htm

I have seen a picture of this vehicle before, but lost the link.

Ian.

Hello Yan,

Remember me from WWII Forums? I quit posting there mid-2019 because the atmosphere had turned mean and the cordial, informative discussions and knowledge sharing that had me going there had devolved into a series of pi*ssing contests. One of my friends there, Bobby, that I was also friends with on Facebook talked me into coming back, which I did in January of this year. When I saw you over here, I went back and checked and it appears you quit posting there just about a year before I did (08JUL2018). Good to see a familiar person!

Anyway, I was cataloging my Library and came across my Custer/LBH books which rekindled an old passion. Re-read them, then went back and re-read the Reno Court of Inquiry transcripts to re-acclimate myself to a myth reduced footing. Then came across this forum and have spent the last month and a half lurking and reading as much of the site as I could and collecting info to bring myself back up to speed and appraise myself of new scholarship. I feel I am familiar enough at this point to ask a question or two without appearing to be a complete idiot.

OK, here goes: Custer had 210 troopers when he engaged/was engaged. Lt. Bradley, James H., from Terry/Gibbon's command discovered the battle site and stated that he counted 197 bodies (13 unaccounted for). There were nine known US Army stragglers from Custer's 5 companies (not counted in the 210 total). The nine were; Brennan, Farrar, Fitzgerald, Thompson, Watson C Co.; Reese, Shields E Co.; Sweeney F Co.; Korn I Co.; eight apparently joined Reno which leaves 1 either KIA/MIA. (Bolded are soldiers I have listed as joining Reno)

Who were the other four survivors? Who was the one killed or MIA? Was his body identified and if so where? Point me to resources with their accounts if you would be so kind.

Respectfully, BP

P.S. a thank you to Fred for providing me with the ranks and first names of the "stragglers". I have added to my notes.

[Yan Taylor]

I certainly Do Bob, I really couldn't of done the US Marine rifle company without your help.
link
link


Things do get a little arwy when you add up stragglers, couriers etc, but we also have outliers (soldiers who where found later outside the battle area), Corporal Foley and Sergeat Butler for example. Others may have ended up in the village or the river.
Lt. Baker probably only counted what he saw.
It was a sprawling battlefield, here is an example from the website "men with Custer", it is about the body of Sgt Maj Sharrow and is a good example of how remains where found later.

Second Lieutenant Charles A. Woodruff, 7th Infantry, claimed that Sharrow’s remains were found, lying near an unidentified soldier, farthest north on the battlefield, although the exact spot continues to be a matter of debate. Two markers are situated just north of Last Stand Hill (aka Custer Hill) adjacent to the walking trail for the Indian Memorial, one of which may be for Sharrow. However, others say that his arrow-riddled body was discovered well over a mile away, beyond the Custer Battlefield Trading Post but north of the river, which begs the question: “Was Sharrow carrying a message from Custer to General Terry?”

I hope someone can help you better than I did Bob, maybe Fred is log on.

Really great that you found this site, it shows that it is really a small world, keep in touch.

Ian