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Post by Dark Cloud on Dec 21, 2010 10:29:14 GMT -6
To repeat:
This is not Independent Research. It's not even research. This is a coloring book mentality to nonsense, not entirely unlike the drawings found over the last centuries in books held in Indian hands unrelated, because they couldn't read, to the contents. It's no worse than conz' offerings on the other board, though. Both hope to impress by color and graphic size, but it doesn't have much point, never mind any new points, and at first blush it covers up the utter vacuum of the posters in question.
Being impressed with Photoshop at the same level others are with archaeology, they make the error of assuming all others are as well.
Considering the other violations that have set off those attuned to keeping this section focused on actual research with no argument, one wonders why this is allowed to continue.
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Post by markland on Dec 21, 2010 14:43:21 GMT -6
Simple, while I dispise the format so badly I don't read them, it does fit, in my mind, the criteria for Independent Research although obviously not original depending on cut-and-paste from numerous secondary sources.
that said, who the hell are you to badmouth anyone for research as you gladly admit that you don't do any?
Billy
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Post by Dark Cloud on Dec 21, 2010 15:58:35 GMT -6
I've never said I don't do research. I've honestly said in regards to specific issues I haven't done research on them.
I'm all I have to be to dis someone claiming - because he posted it here - Independent Research when neither of the two words apply to that nonsense. And because it's gone unremarked by those who previously and rightly complained, that too is a fair question.
You live in Kansas. Who are you pretend to being worthy? Eh? I ask you.
You talk about 'hills' and 'bluffs' as if you could remotely imagine them. Your literary guilds meet weekly to discuss articles and ads in the John Deere catalog, thesaurus at the ready. You can tell that's considered a formal gathering in Kansas by all the black pickups in the driveway.
Ethanol is your biggest and best selling product, scam, cologne, urinal cake component, and Wine Spritzer. Your corn is so genetically enhanced you can now stop the car at any point on I-70 in the summer and hear it humming on the verge of speech, plotting, pursuing its own ends. I live in Boulder, Home of the Earthly Gods. Enough said.
Freshen this, return to your hay, and dream of variations in elevation, conversation, and existence during your dance around those few Solstice bonfires that are intentional tonight. Remember, this year it's counterclockwise. Draw an arrow in the dirt, Kansans are so easily confused.
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Post by fred on Dec 21, 2010 18:47:06 GMT -6
Boulder, eh?
Something to be said about a town named for a large rock. Is there anything left after this summer?
And please define "Independent Research"; I have no clue what that means. Of course, I wasn't sure what you wanted to see in a glossary, so what the hell do I know?
As for Kansas... well... my best friend lives in Colorado. And no, it's not Rock Ville.
If I knew what kind of slivowitz you drank, I'd send you a bottle. I have some of the best Serbian rot-gut money can buy, plums stomped by bare feet on a dirt floor. Great stuff! Soothe your personality; actually makes me sociable.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by shan on Dec 22, 2010 4:52:58 GMT -6
Fred,
your mention of research reminds me that I'd meant to ask you where you had found your other source---as yet untangled--- on the Wolf Tooth Big Foot episode. The only other references I've come across such as the Father Peter Powell account have basically quoted it from John Stands in Timbers account If this is a new as yet unreported version I'd love to hear it if you feel like sharing it.
As has often been said, not least by me, trying to place the where and whens of his account in the landscape is almost impossible. But then when one thinks about it these were around the fireside stories told to his own people, many of whom had been there that day, so what need had he to name or pin point locations to men who knew the ground?Even more unlikely, why would he use the names that had been applied to these places by his erstwhile enemies when his people had names for them of their own?
Shan
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Post by fred on Dec 22, 2010 6:30:27 GMT -6
Shan,
I have no other source. In fact, I cannot even tell you where I got the information I have, other than the standard books. I will look up a few references for you and see if I can pinpoint it better.
To be honest with you, I am extremely uncomfortable with the whole Wolf Tooth/Big Foot business in the first place.
There are two incidents that drive me in this whole deal: one, was the constant berating of our-- or maybe I should say someone's-- dear friend, Darkcloud, with his constant harping-- much of it directed at me, I seem to remember-- about first-hand tales told closer to the event than 50 years later (!!!!), and the second was when I was about to buy a book and Richard A. Fox, Jr., the archaeologist (who has since become a friend... some people I know refer to me as his shill), grabbed it out of my hand and replaced it with James Bradley's book and The Arikara Narratives.
"First-hand source books, Fred! Source books!"
Heavy-duty advice from two people whose opinions I respect greatly. Yes, yes, yes! I know! I've gone ahead and said it! But based on the pain-in-my-ass' cajoling, I read the RCOI and came away amazed. I couldn't put the damn thing down.
Anyway, Shan, I have found nothing like that with Wolf Tooth, yet I have incorporated him into my work... and as I said, am extremely uncomfortable with it because it is one of the few items in that time-line that I am guessing about and that I cannot properly source. The reference is strictly by "logic," and while we can say, "OK, fine!," it isn't good enough. A work of this nature must be as air-tight as possible, and even the guesswork has to flow properly and within some sort of reasonable sequencing. My reference to Wolf Tooth is neither; it just pops up and I have inserted it for convenience and comfort. And now, unless I can do better than that, I am going to have to delete it. I guess we know he was there... but where... and when?
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by fred on Dec 22, 2010 6:56:18 GMT -6
Shan,
My library on this stuff is rather meager: less than 100 books I think. I just checked some of the standard works by others and the usual references only pop up: Father Powell and John Stands In Timber. Nothing else. I cannot even get the name of a "third" warrior who rode with those guys.
Sorry!
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by herosrest on Dec 22, 2010 7:16:39 GMT -6
I can thumbnail the links to lessen impact. A reasonable compromise, perhaps as far as the topic page.
The format is print orientated, thus its format, which is also suitable for large screens. Not everyone has those.
As to whether the content is research, of course it is. Each item can be saved to desktop or any folder of choice and
perused at your leisure - they are presented in .jpg format.
Those complaining about the format have the problem. l will next time try thumbnails. Darkcloud is l see as positive as ever.
Be well DC. Did you catch the scouting post and BloodiY Knife's other name? Blue Cloud.
Here is some research and a little bit of fun.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Dec 22, 2010 9:26:53 GMT -6
Research that pigs fly ? Attachments:
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Post by Dark Cloud on Dec 22, 2010 12:07:57 GMT -6
....and that the sky is red. See? You missed that, and you're such an expert. You missed that. That proves everything else I post is true, see? SEE!? Experts can be wrong.
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Post by herosrest on Dec 23, 2010 7:19:03 GMT -6
Greetings all - great to see you've entered the everywhere spirit of things. l'll fiddle with the format and see what i can come up with in respect an alternate presentation. Thumbnails linked to the page files is easiest, probably - although nothing in life ever really is unless falling off logs.
Those criticisms are the messenger being shot rather than the message being contemplated after it has been absorbed, but that is the way of people - subtle, and never really to the point. Wishing you all a bonny bravo Noel and may your next years be better than those before.
Red sky - great name for historical novel charachter, DC. I may use it. Those of a techie ilk, can tv out to big screen, where the wonderous splender that is my creativity really come into its own. Photo-shopping images used is harsh of you Dark Cloud - the images are not mis-presented, simply scaled- relatively to put across a very simple viisual message.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Dec 23, 2010 7:52:01 GMT -6
HS I am not sure what a flying pig has to do with research on the LBH?
Billy a question for you. If eight ball goes to your fine website and copies and pastes its content into his presentation is that research?
I would think that copying it for his own use is research but posting it without credit to the author or permission when necessary is not research.
You project from hell is truly research. Copying it and pasting it somewhere else does not seem to me to be research.
Merry Christmas
Steve
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Post by AZ Ranger on Dec 23, 2010 8:01:29 GMT -6
What I object to Heroset is that you show a picture of infantry giving a demonstration of a skirmish line and then draw some LBH conclusion from it and call it research.
In your research did you not discover that infantry was not there during the battle?
What I would like to see is your research on Benteen being to the left of Reno as Reno moved down the LBH valley.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Dec 23, 2010 8:36:05 GMT -6
HS If you look in Where Custer Fell page 125 you will see the picture you post with proper credit to the source used for the book. You will also note that it says nothing other than skirmish line on Custer Battlefield June 25, 1886. Note in the picture below it is the cemetery in 1995 with the background hills consistent with those appearing in the photo above it.
There is also a picture of mounted troops at the Custer Battlefield including a gray horse company. They never claimed it to be an accurate depiction of the battle did they?
There are also pictures available showing thousands of spectators at the battlefield. My research shows they were not there during the battle.
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Post by markland on Dec 23, 2010 12:56:50 GMT -6
Steve, most of the stuff at my site is public domain documents that I transcribed. That being said, common courtesy or plain honesty should cause someone who reposts the transcript to include the original source info & transcription attribution. Unfortunately that isn't always the case as evidenced by some yahoo grabbing the Bell transcript and posting it at their site.
As far as the PFH, I only post limited info from that online such as the. fetter man casualties or the Irish deaths. A few friends: yourself, The Rat, Frank (Bubba), Jeff Broome, Elisabeth & Doug Scott have been given the entire database which is continuously out-of-date due to the proof-reading process.
Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Billy
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