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Post by cefil on Feb 14, 2010 9:45:20 GMT -6
It's not a theory, it's a fact. All that can be argued is the size of the role man has played, and even here the evidence is pretty convincing that it's huge... Pop.py.cock. Climategate U-turn as scientist at centre of row admits: There has been no global warming since 1995
The academic at the centre of the ‘Climategate’ affair, whose raw data is crucial to the theory of climate change, has admitted that he has trouble ‘keeping track’ of the information.
Colleagues say that the reason Professor Phil Jones has refused Freedom of Information requests is that he may have actually lost the relevant papers.
Professor Jones told the BBC yesterday there was truth in the observations of colleagues that he lacked organisational skills, that his office was swamped with piles of paper and that his record keeping is ‘not as good as it should be’.
The data is crucial to the famous ‘hockey stick graph’ used by climate change advocates to support the theory.
Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.
And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.
cefil
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Post by cefil on Feb 14, 2010 15:02:47 GMT -6
The right-wing buffoons are acting like the "world-is-flat" zealots that said you'll fall off the earth when you reach the edge of it. Don't let their scare tactics that support big business fossil fuel burners turn you against REAL science. Even.more.pop.py.cock. By capitalizing REAL science, I can only assume you mean it as an acronym for Really Extraordinarily All-made-up Lies science. Who are the real zealots in this picture? I vote for the left-wing buffoons who are acting like "sky-is-falling" Chicken Littles, misusing discredited information to bolster a nonexistent fantasy. Four feet of snow? It's just more evidence of global warming!
You know you're not dealing in the realm of science when anything that happens is adopted as confirmation of a hypothesis. A scientific theory is one that generates predictions that can be verified or falsified. Global warming doesn't qualify.
cefil P.S. My apologies for contributing to the hijacking of this--originally--perfectly respectable thread...I'm just completely fed up with the gratuitous insults handed out willy-nilly by those of the leftist persuasion.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Feb 14, 2010 23:05:42 GMT -6
It's not a left or right issue, and any 100 scientists are irrelevant, never mind your chosen one. Because people are scared that we won't act in time, and because there's much upheaval demanded to do anything about it, exaggerations should be expected. That doesn't negate the main point or the reality. If we just continue and hope war or pandemic will assist by decimating or better the population and blunting need for more power and food, that's not a reasonable course.
The vast majority of scientists world wide are in no doubt. If you are, just compare polar ice pack depletion, loss of glaciers, and the fact that world wide, according to numerous references on Google, January was the hottest on record. Australia is drying up and blowing away. Do you deny the glaciers are gone or going? Do you deny the ice pack is vanishing at an alarming rate?
It's called "global warming", not Just Us warming, so because we lard buckets in the US had a lot of snow (which has happened before) in 49 states on one day recently is not a disproving element. Just a disquieting one, because our weather patterns are very different now from previous in our lifetime, with bigger storm systems. Overall, you'd be hard put to find a city or town that's gotten colder through the decades in this nation or anywhere to counteract all the others getting hotter.
Every nation has measured their average temperatures for a long time, and January was the warmest since records were kept; the last decade was the warmest since records were kept. The earth is getting warmer. There's no intelligent argument about that. It's numbers, annotated in many languages.
The only real argument, as said, is about whether we're the main cause, and if it's different this time than previous warmings, and there is much evidence that we are and it sorta is, but there are other causes as well, some cyclical. Increasing population beyond all reason cannot be expected to have no effect, and China is putting a coal electric plant on their grid every fifteen minutes, it seems. India, too.
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Post by stevewilk on Feb 15, 2010 0:38:12 GMT -6
"Warmest on record" sounds impressive, but to my knowledge, weather recording is a rather recent endeavor. Only since 1850s or so, at least here in the U.S. Who's to say how many even warmer winters have occurred "off record"? Unfortunately it is a political issue; the left has made this their "religion". But just to jog folks' memories, this was what we were being told by these same scientist types in 1974: www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914-2,00.html and what one Russian scientist claimed recently: www.en.rian.ru/science/20080122/97519953.htmlWish they'd make up their minds. Don't know whether to stock up on tank tops and shorts or long johns. This all relates to the 1865 Powder River campaign how?
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Post by Dark Cloud on Feb 15, 2010 9:01:44 GMT -6
As mostly liberal, I retain atheism about religion in all forms, including climate change and scientific fads. But I live in Boulder, which crawls in scientists dealing with climate and weather, of all political persuasion, religions, and nationalities, and there is no meaningful disagreement the earth is warming. It's WHY it's warming, and at the current rates, that allows disagreement.
The Russian's three year old predictions have been revealed as false, no doubt you noticed when you read it. "Warming" does not mean that each year will be warmer than the previous, only that in the time period considered it is overall more warm at the end than the beginning. And, it is.
In both articles, you note that the increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide is the fear factor, but the authors and interviewees don't know how it will play out. Overall, the scientific 'types' world wide feel they do, now.
Nobody addresses the vanishing glaciers and icecaps. How come?
It isn't directly relevant to the Powder River Campaign whatsoever - I didn't insert the topic - except that winters back then were colder (overall), and the use of science to impress and awe the easily impressed and awed (and uneducated) is one of the LBH's great embarrassments of late.
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Post by cefil on Feb 15, 2010 9:16:57 GMT -6
I'm disappointed in you, DC. You have such a keen eye for perceived misuse of questionable science & data in bolstering various LBH theories...and yet you seem more than willing to swallow -- hook, line, and sinker -- even more questionable science & data supporting the nonsensical claim of unprecedented, man-made, global warming.
Read the recent BBC interview with Phil Jones, the director of the CRU and the man behind the now thoroughly discredited "hockey stick" graph. Even the worst of the GACophiles can't come close to matching the breathtaking fraud and deceit of the GWophiles.
cefil
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Post by Dark Cloud on Feb 15, 2010 11:59:35 GMT -6
As I say, in Boulder we have many of the scientists who deal with this sort of stuff, and in conversation or just reading their public output, it's pretty convincing. Since you only seem aware of the Fox News template of this one incident and one report, you probably ought to familiarize yourself with the issues. It's not close. That you seemed to think the snow of late was disproving doesn't show much appreciation of the points of any government's stats. Here's a piece on that gay-female-lefty Dubya Bush admitting that global warming exists and that the US plays a role in it. From 2001 when Bush was President. www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010612climate0612netp2.aspnews.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2023835.stmThe second url references 2002, when Bush was still president, I think. It says: The US Government has acknowledged for the first time that man-made pollution is largely to blame for global warming.
But it has again refused to shift its position on the Kyoto Protocol, an international treaty designed to mitigate global warming which the Bush administration rejected last year.
In a 268-page report submitted to the United Nations, the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) endorsed what many scientists have long argued - that human activities such as oil refining, power generation and car emissions are significant causes of global warming.... But anyway, shut up, life sucks, and - cough - freshen my drink, damnit. Boulder is now officially the Happiest and Healthiest City in the world, and I believe in Gallup Polls with a devotion only slightly less than that of the offerings of the Ponds Institute (I have a slight blemish on my neck, so life sucks..) or the Daily Kos (all hail Ned Lamont! Ha......who the hell is he, and why are we risking losing a Senate seat over this....?) or the Chickenhawk of your choice. Really, how many electrons died for this pointless poll? Who paid for it? Why? When did Michigan become East Coast? www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_14404187#axzz0fd3UPRMLBut don't hate me just because I'm - blech, *gasp!*, <massive boot over keyboard> - healthier and happier than you. Hate me because I'm better looking, spiritually richer, and lunch with God every Tuesday. Feel inferior for reason, at least. And Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy to you as well.
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Post by cefil on Feb 15, 2010 13:53:57 GMT -6
Huh?!? I ran that through Babel Fish and it came out as: Babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble babble...Freshen this!
You, sir, are a true master...I bow to your babbleness. cefil
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Post by cefil on Feb 15, 2010 15:29:23 GMT -6
At the risk of flogging this off-topic post far longer than it deserves, I feel compelled to rebut several of the statements of mis-fact discernible in the midst of your otherwise fascinating screed.
First, your scandalous accusation that I am somehow following a "Fox News template" for this story. Utterly ridiculous! I don't even watch Fox News (not that there's anything wrong with that). If you paid closer attention to my posts, you would have noticed that I cited the Daily Mail and the BBC...hardly Fox News Affiliate material.
Second, what a few misguided souls in the Bush administration may or may not have been led to "admit" is completely irrelevant to the facts. (Besides, that report comes from the BBC; who in the world would trust them?)
Third, the presence, in Boulder, of "many of the scientists who deal with this sort of stuff" means exactly zero. Ward Churchill was in Boulder...does that make his "conversations" or "public output" any more truthful?
Fourth, Michigan *is* on the east coast...of Lake Michigan. (Although the shoreline is known a "Michigan's West Coast"...how confusing!)
Fifth, OK...you got me on the healthier and happier bit. But then, you only have to deal with all of those scientists running around conversing and outputting on the streets of the world's happiest city. I have to deal with South Dakota state government...and it's legislative session, to boot!
cefil
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Post by wolfgang911 on Feb 16, 2010 17:39:06 GMT -6
DC you rule on this post. I completely agree! Being an extreme right wing ecologist, I have no political party or direction. For me tradition and conservation of nature goes together. Republicans are only conservative for taxes and religion related subjects. It is just XXXXX to state that having some ecological common sense is leftish. It is because of those right wing pro automobile nitwits that we keep on depending on corrupt arab and african states. Dubai is building it's tower of babylone with the money of the global warming denyers. How can one be so ignorant to think that you can blow up in 1 century the fossile energy stocked by plants over 1 trillion of years without any effect on the climate. You can not play dice on the future of the existence of life on the planet. We can not take the risk. And you can not burn all fosile energy just hoping (or pure egoism) that there will be something invented later for future generations. So anyway, even if we're wrong, who cares, at least we get rid of our dependency on saoudi Arabia, Iran and irak. But as I'm in total osmose with DC on this post (I knew we would agree one day ) the real problem is elsewhere. Overpopulation. I have been looking everywhere for a massive birth control party. Nobody dares to speak about it. You're called a fascist if you dare to mention it, it is total omerta. As some countries (call it ethnical groups if not races) allready cut down the rate. Yep those lakota knew how how to controll their numbers. ;D And they had free proteids and plenty of unpolluting horsepower. I would be just fine in my winter lodge heating with buffaloo poop if it is was not that connor coward coming in during winter break. Hey did I bring this topic nicely back to it's thread or what.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Feb 17, 2010 10:12:32 GMT -6
If there is such a thing as global warming or man-caused climate change, it is only because there are more men on the planet blowing hot air.
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Post by bc on Feb 18, 2010 22:27:29 GMT -6
And with some more hot air, if all else fails we can blame it on the NAs. It started with them.
10,000 years this country was covered with glaciers during the ice age. Then the small bands of NAs discovered fire and began cooking using wood and buffalo chips for fuel. It took a while but all those cooking fires finally warmed up the globe enough to cause the glaciers to retreat and the country became warm.
Things were really warming up until a 1000 years ago when the vikings found a nice green island to inhabit. The waters around it were navitigable by the long boats. Then due to some aberration in global warming, the place they called Greenland iced over and unexplainably became a frozen wasteland and the seas froze as well.
I read somewhere that the Sahara desert used to be the south pole.
Anyone ever wonder why all the global warming scientists have gravitated to European countries with liberal marijuana laws and a state that allows medical marijuana? Mere coincidence? I have this vision of a global warming scientist with bloodshot, glassy, watery, and glazed over eyes trying to read their thermometer about 2 inches in front of their eyes with a hot, burning joint sticking out their mouth about 2 inches below the thermometer.
bc
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Post by crzhrs on Feb 22, 2010 14:29:18 GMT -6
A report just came out today (Feb. 22) stating the southern ice caps are melting faster than thought. I hope all those who don't think Global Warming is fake can swim!
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Post by wolfgang911 on Feb 22, 2010 17:02:47 GMT -6
Anyone ever wonder why all the global warming scientists have gravitated to European countries with liberal marijuana laws and a state that allows medical marijuana? Mere coincidence? I have this vision of a global warming scientist with bloodshot, glassy, watery, and glazed over eyes trying to read their thermometer about 2 inches in front of their eyes with a hot, burning joint sticking out their mouth about 2 inches below the thermometer. bc not funny but pretty helpfull to get an idea of your perception of the world so what has pain relief from cancer by cannabis to do with collecting data from iceberg volumes?
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Post by wolfgang911 on Feb 22, 2010 17:16:07 GMT -6
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zORv8wwiadQ&hl=fr_FR&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zORv8wwiadQ&hl=fr_FR&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> maybe time to have a look of the videos by this american; pretty instructive with plenty of reasons not to consume all fosille energy for future generations and make us independant of corrupt arab states buying up the world which is the result of your driving around and being cynical in your homestate kansas in your too big automobiles in aircooled homes all fuelled by the sunnlight captured by plants billions years that we blow up in a couple of decades, like children with a creampie, (or adults with the buffalo or with the whale or the dodo or whatever, just take it). Can't wait untill we're back to real horsepower! The sooner the better.
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