muffy
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Posts: 38
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Post by muffy on Sept 19, 2009 14:52:43 GMT -6
I have 2 questions about Sgt. John Vickory that I hope someone can help me with. .
1. His enlistment date in the Seventh Cavalry. One source says Sep 9, 1874, but the Donald McIntosh diary has him with the 7th in 1872, 73.
2. One source says he first enlisted in the Civil War, 14th New York Heavy Artillery, under the name John H. Groesbeck. Does anyone know if this is true, or how I could confirm they are one and the same???
Thanks.
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Post by Rabble on Sept 19, 2009 23:39:00 GMT -6
Hi Muffey
Vickory enlisted on July 31 1866, re-enlisted September 9 1869 and again September 9 1874. I have PMd you if you wish copies of details
Ron
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muffy
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Posts: 38
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Post by muffy on Sept 20, 2009 9:26:09 GMT -6
Thank you. My mistake was thinking "enlisted" instead of "re-enlisted." Not sure what PMd is !!
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Post by Rabble on Sept 20, 2009 19:55:58 GMT -6
Hi Muffy, at the top of the Message Page you will have a sentence saying "you have messages". Just click on the word message, which is in orange, and you can read it.
Ron
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muffy
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Posts: 38
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Post by muffy on Sept 23, 2009 11:04:33 GMT -6
Hi again:
One source tells me John H. Groesbeck enlisted in Company H of the 14th New York Heavy Artillery division November 23, 1863, but deserted. This source says Groesbeck then changed his name to John Vickory when he re-enlisted in 2nd Massachusetts Cavalry in 1864.
Does anyone know if this is true or ......
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Post by Rabble on Sept 23, 2009 19:52:47 GMT -6
His father's application for a pension shows both names AND the the units he served in. I can send a copy of the record if you wish Ron
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Post by bc on Sept 24, 2009 8:40:31 GMT -6
His father's application for a pension shows both names AND the the units he served in. I can send a copy of the record if you wish Ron What was his father's name? Just wondering which enlistment was with a false name. Thanks. bc
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Post by Rabble on Sept 24, 2009 19:49:01 GMT -6
Hi bc,
his father' s name was William Groesbeck. John H Groesbeck enlisted in 1863 and deserted in 1864. Enlisted again 1864 (different unit) and in the 7th both as John Vickory.
Regards
Ron
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muffy
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Posts: 38
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Post by muffy on Sept 25, 2009 8:10:54 GMT -6
Appreciate all the information, and the messaages sent. This helps a great deal. Thank you.
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muffy
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Posts: 38
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Post by muffy on Oct 28, 2009 8:54:28 GMT -6
Hello again:
Another Vickory enquiry. One source has his birthdate as 1847, making him 16 when he first enlisted during the Civil War, not 19 as indicated in the enlistment records. Is there any confirmation of a birth date or age ?
Thanks //Muffy
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Post by Diane Merkel on Oct 28, 2009 10:06:17 GMT -6
The Arthur H. Clark Company recently published a new book, Military Register of Custer's Last Command. In it, Jno. H. Groesbeck, a/k/a Jno. Vickory, enlisted in the regular army in Boston on July 31, 1866, at the age of 19, so he would have been 16 at the time of his enrollment in the 14 NY Artillery in 1863.
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Post by bc on Oct 28, 2009 10:42:27 GMT -6
Hello again: Another Vickory enquiry. One source has his birthdate as 1847, making him 16 when he first enlisted during the Civil War, not 19 as indicated in the enlistment records. Is there any confirmation of a birth date or age ? Thanks //Muffy Muffy, unless you have a certified birth certificate in hand, nothing in any book can be considered as "confirmation". Could be typos, dyslexic transcribers, mishearing/misquoting, etc. Even census records aren't consistent when ages and names are recorded and I've looked at a lot of them. All you can do is go to all the sources, including his obituary and grave stone, and then make a best guess. bc
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Post by Diane Merkel on Oct 28, 2009 12:36:23 GMT -6
True, a birth certificate is best if available. I disagree about obituaries and grave markers as both rely on family members for information, which could be only someone's best recollection. Of course, in Vickory's case, his grave in on LSH.
If a birth certificate is not available, which is often the case in this time period, then books such as the original Men with Custer and the one I cited above, both of which were compiled using primary source materials, might be the best and only bet.
The 2000 edition of Men with Custer states he was born in July 1847 in Toronto, Canada, the son of William and Mariah Vicory Groesbeck. At least there's the hint of where he got the name "Vickory," which is spelled "elsewhere as Vickery, Vockroy, Victor, and Vickyard."
Rabble probably sent you this, but here's some family information from Men with Custer, p. 130, which was likely taken from his father's pension application: "His mother died on August 18, 1851, in Clifton Park, NY. . . . His siblings were: Emiline, Melinda, Caroline, Walker F., William I., Nehemiah and Nelson." At least that gives you a clue as to when they left Canada for New York.
Good luck!
Diane
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muffy
New Member
Posts: 38
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Post by muffy on Oct 28, 2009 13:48:33 GMT -6
Well, since the book Diane quotes does agree with the source I have, and it makes sense, I'm going with it. Thanks for all the input.
You're all troopers for answering my questions so patiently.
Muffy
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Post by bc on Oct 28, 2009 14:13:08 GMT -6
Not sure I alluded anything conclusive to obituaries and grave stones except that is part of all the evidence to consider. There is a long list of other stuff as well but nothing that constitutes confirmation.
I had some relatives leave Canada in 1850/51. There was a mass exodus due to Canadian government crackdowns on dissidents and taking their land. Also lots of Scot-Irish immigrated to Canada with the start of the potato famine in 1845 and England was offering cheap seafare of 15 shillings instead of the regular rate of 100 shillings to get people to settle in Canada. They would then walk across the border or take a coastal freighter to the states. Many were Scot-Irish and English who went to New York and Massachusetts. There were many Germans who immigrated to Canada, some because of the Prussia forced integration after 1840 and from the 1848 revolution in Germany. The Groesbeck name originated in Bavaria. You can find Canadian immigration records at canadagenweb.org or rootweb. Maybe you can match up some Canadian and US immigration records, canadian birth records, census records, and some ship passenger lists to clarify which year his parents arrived and which year he may have been born.
bc
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