Was 'Crazy Horse's brother, killed fighting LBH.

[wolfgang911]

oups )

(...and not doing wrongs or bloodshed, also to avoid extra collision and retaliation).

As for the revenge factor I disagree completely but enjoy reading your theory for debate :
I think any regiment running into a war camp should have met the same fate. When defending livestock, children and women, the whole tribe united for once for wakantanka's sake,...
how would you expect them to react, to leave the 7th run while they could kill them like buffalo, thanks to custer's division of his troops at fatal distances?
To many attacks by the us army on no com villages had gone by unpunished on other tribes (= non hunkpapa of oglala).
One thing in common : daybreak attacks by surprise with men on the hunting party. This time it was noon and men were in.
So I don't think you have to imagine a theory of a specific victim of combat that spurred the bloodshed. The natives did not know much about what happened to eachother during combat.
They just got the plate served at the right time.
Too bad Reno and Benteen were late for desert to lay down with the other customers..

[herosrest]

People fight wolfgang911, that means winners and losers. As you say, there was rivalry between Gall & SB or so l discern. As Gall's revenges got underway, SB's warrior days were in wane as he pushed over 40. Gall was active and aggressive, Baker's Battlefield, the running fights with the 1874 Yellowstone gold hunting expedition into the Greasy Grass valley. There was the rising and waning star thing going on in respect fighting and war. George Herendeen was a part of the jouney of adventurers whom the Lacota fought from Yellowstone to Lodge Grass in a series of quite vicious encounters, the Cheyenne had a pop at them as well.

That is interesting that it was the ladies who got to ignoreSB's advice about looting.

I'm learning, some fascinting history, a little about a lot at the moment, many suprises amongst which perhaps the greatest was the records of study left by E.S. Curtis, not his pictures but the written journals of Plains life.

[wolfgang911]

bonjour herosrest
:)yes those women again..

Disagree with you about SB again which is cool so we have something to debate
Gall was a beautiful & fierce warrior, SB was older but not old yet, he was having more prestige for his visions (or call it intuition) and having more power (also through blackmoon 4horns). Even the diplomatic non attending of meetings or non signing of treaties made him the searched for leader.

As for bravery : it has been recorded that tatanka iyotankah
thought that shooting and counting coups was boring and not sufficient for bravery : when he walked out to smoke his pipe during combat in between lines in front of stanley's troop at arrow creek in 72 it is said as the bravest deed of all related by lakota who spoke to Vestal.

Another incredible act of his warriorship and bravery, in 1880 by the top of my head, was when he rode out in a gladiator fight 1 to 1 to meet the crow magpie in open combat in canada. He shot him the brains out with one good shot. I don't know of a similar knightship deed by gall, so SB was still having some credit on the battlefield side untill 1880
And on and on as i am addicted to the guy (and his akicita on the web ) but elsewhere will open a post as I don't wish to concentrate your topic of crazy horse's brother on sitting bull.

Could you cite more of your sources for high horse as i am not a genealogy specialist lacking brain space I have to look it up.
wolf

[herosrest]

I found LBH an event of most frustrating proportion to study, the depth of record, opinion and motive is
something quite special. Several times, just back to basics, tear up everything you think you know and start
over. Above all is the terrain and locations of the tribal cresents. I learnt the hard way to downsize and feel now
l have a decent handle on that aspect of things. But, it tumbles everything, everything else and any record or
research that l check out has to be measured against that researchers conclusions based on village size.
It really jumbles peoples thinking up. It is the same with virtually every single aspect of matters before even
dipping a toe into the proponents of the 7th Cavalry good guys, fumbles and the entire campaign and its
relevance. The volumes of information and sources grow and grow, something else or a new twist or source.
It is remarkable.

Some really awkward stuff goes on, that's life ......... people, endevour, kudos, investments... blah, blah, blah.

The village size lesson made me halt. Woah boy! At some stage G.A. Custer may have had a similar experience
on or near his final battle. Everything has to relate to the fact of that settlement, and it does not, even in the
most modern thinking. My interest was simply the usual thing, tactics, manouver, battle plan. Silly moi. I expect
the 'High Horse' question to unravel for, it is a pending issue open and in the back of my mind whatever facet of
LBH l am considering currently. It will unlock. It is the nature of those people. If there are broader issues they
are not my concern. My interest is what occured. I shan't be writing books, phoning up journalists or doing 6
o'clock news.

I altered my views of the village size and realised mountains of considered opinion and research is simply
flawed in thinking and or process. Here was one of those 'bingo' moments - anyone in the lodges that week of
June had a rough idea of the layout of things so if an Oglala, say, was chatting to Philo Clark at the Nebraska
camp, what they were telling him was truth related to actual events. Clark was a natural 'sign talker' which
breeds 'some' confidence in his reports and findings. Clarks map of the battle and modern understanding of
village size.

Clark's map - www.friendslittlebighorn.com/williamclarkmap.jpg

The Cheyenne are opposite Calhoun Hill, that is illustrated because that is the way it was. The routes shown for
Cavalry to and from the river are from Calhoun Hill.Somehow for the last 133 years, because Clark labelled a
ford as D, the world and its mother has been looking at crossing places down river at and beyond Deep Ravine.
The Cheyenne were camped opposite MTC and Deep Coulee and that is what the map shows. No-one knew that
133 years ago because the village was 4 miles long and on it rolls, fiction as fact. There were two hills, all focus fall on LSH.
Clark struggled with it, he knew something wasn't right but couldn't figure it 'cos of course he knew the village was miles long.
That trail to D from the hill can be only one place on that field. Only one.
files.myopera.com/herosrest/albums/634358/10033393.jpg
____________________________________________________________________________________

In it's self one piece of a puzzle. Here's another - The map drawn by 'Rain in the Face' my.opera.com/herosrest/albums/showpic.dml?album=634358&picture=8854534

[herosrest]

files.usgwarchives.net/sd/ziebach/history/z-hst-5.txt

[wolfgang911]

[clw]

Sept 4, 2009 14:40:46 GMT -6 herosrest said:

files.usgwarchives.net/sd/ziebach/history/z-hst-5.txt

I've been to most of those places, even the ghost towns, and heard some of the history, but that brings it all together. Thanks for posting the link.

[herosrest]

Hi clw. There are more files, note the url - 5.txt extension. So at least 4 more. Lots of stuff, l work through it when l can. Fascinating it is, lost history.

[AZ Ranger]

It's lost because you haven't read it? If its on the INTERNET its not lost.

[herosrest]

It's hard to find and realise what is there if you skim through, so , kinda lost.