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Post by shan on Aug 3, 2011 3:47:07 GMT -6
Fuchs, I think your absoloutely right when it comes to the Indian artists depicting white men.
Indians generally tended to want to be as accurate as possible when he came to depicting either themselves or their fellow tribesmen, taking great care to depict individual modes of dress, face paint, hair decoration and weapons that they favored, even the type and colour of horse they preferred.
Where possible they applied the same care to depicting their tribal enemies, and here we have to remember that most of these encounters were fairly small scale affairs so that more often than not they knew some of the bolder, braver warriors on the other side, men they often admired and hoped to kill one day. As a consequence they were more than happy to faithfully render how their enemies dressed and looked and the type of horse they rode.
When it came to white men things were different. For a start white soldiers tended to all dress the same, use the same weapons and ride similar coloured horses. Where they could differencerate between individuals they did draw and paint them in their individual dress. There are many examples of this in the art work that shows some of the fighting on the Southern plains.
So, faced with a fairly uniform bunch of men at the battle of the Little Big Horn we find few depiction's of individuals. If you look at the paintings of Red Horse you will see that he did render individual beard and mustache styles here and there, and he was very clear that the companies rode different coloured horses. Given this lack of individuality the artists tended to revert back to stereotypes, mixing and matching various army dress styles in their depiction of army men. Some of these ideas may well have been drawn from the various units they saw whilst living on reservations and from the odd images of white paintings they may have come across.
One other thing. There several pieces which appear to depict Custer himself, usually dressed in full buckskins, but these are almost all reliant on stories and folk tales they heard much later from both the white and red sides.
If you wish to see more, I highly recommend a recent book by Rod Thomas and occasional contributor called ' Rubbing out long hair.'
Shan
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Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 3, 2011 4:02:05 GMT -6
I think the one I remember is by Kicking Bear from 1896, there is a similar one by Amos. Regards Ian.
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Aug 3, 2011 8:16:48 GMT -6
If you wish to see more, I highly recommend a recent book by Rod Thomas and occasional contributor called ' Rubbing out long hair.' Shan With you all the way there David - it is a magnificent book. I trust that all is well with you? Hunk
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dcary
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by dcary on Feb 20, 2012 15:22:11 GMT -6
I have a hunch the yellow scarves came from 'She wore a yellow ribbon' which my aunt and uncle took me to in a theater on New Years Eve 1949. Keep in mind that those costume unis would be preserved and probably got used over and over in whatever color westerns were being made, for economy's sake.
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Jenny
Full Member
Posts: 200
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Post by Jenny on Jan 21, 2023 17:13:59 GMT -6
I read this thread, ancient as it is, with great interest because of the portraits I'm painting. I would add that neckerchiefs were probably given to soldiers by mothers and girlfriends and wives - but probably most often mothers. Veteran fighters would know to carry one if not wear it for all the reasons stated above (dust, sun, etc.) I painted one private in E Co., with a blue patterned bandanna because it seemed like something only a mother would give a son. Also, if I remember correctly a metal suspender piece was found on the LBB after the range fires in the 1980s. My brain tells me farriers and saddlers probably wore suspenders rather than belts, based on all the bending and stooping they did.
I welcome more discussion on the topic of unauthorized clothing and accessories!
J
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 22, 2023 14:25:02 GMT -6
Wow, I have really been here that long Here is a motley crew waring differing coloured neck scarfs Ian
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Post by noggy on Jan 23, 2023 2:01:21 GMT -6
Handkerchiefs sounds like a useful thing to have while riding for hours out on the praerie. Do we know if it was part of the gear handed out to soldiers? If so, the color would be "unifrom" (no pun intended etc). But if not, I guess you'd see many different colors.
Noggy
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Post by herosrest on Jan 23, 2023 5:22:54 GMT -6
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 23, 2023 8:09:13 GMT -6
GAC 2016, suspenders! Attachments:
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Post by crzhrs on Jan 23, 2023 9:50:35 GMT -6
From all accounts while there was standard uniforms many officers and even enlisted men were allowed to wear almost whatever they wanted as long as they paid for it.
We know some of Custer's uniforms were described by one historian as a Circus Rider Gone Wild!
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Jenny
Full Member
Posts: 200
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Post by Jenny on Jan 23, 2023 11:53:04 GMT -6
From all accounts while there was standard uniforms many officers and even enlisted men were allowed to wear almost whatever they wanted as long as they paid for it. We know some of Custer's uniforms were described by one historian as a Circus Rider Gone Wild! For sure. And most of the EM I imagine had less than a pot to pee in after payday, especially foreigners sending money back to relatives, orphan types and those on a restricted paycheck due to criminal convictions. I look at old photos and take a guess that most used whatever they could get their hands on - unless they had a good relationship with family, in which case they probably were upstanding and bought the whole uniform AND a yellow scarf. I'm not convinced yellow scarves were popular. Seems kind of dandy for most of the men. Even Custer didn't wear one. And that color! A beacon in the wilderness! J
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 24, 2023 1:27:44 GMT -6
Yellow scarf is product of john Ford, but yellow is the traditional colour of the us cavalry, the other services like infantry, artillery and engineers have different. Not 100% here because I am in work at the minute but the other colours mare red, blue and green?
Ian
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