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Post by bc on May 27, 2008 19:23:36 GMT -6
Little Big Man sighting. Tonight only!! 10:00 pm central time. Turner classic movies. Haven't seen this on on the tube in a long time.
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on May 28, 2008 16:50:56 GMT -6
Worth watching just to see the incredible face of Chief Dan George as Old Lodgeskins.
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Post by biggordie on May 28, 2008 18:41:57 GMT -6
A noted British Columbian, who is sadly missed. I saw the last twenty or so minutes - the final moments of the Last Stand and the trip to the mountain top by grandfather and son, so that Old Lodgeskins could die "where the people are buried in the sky." The scene where he lies down to die, and the sky clouds over and it starts to rain is priceless. So much is transmitted by the twitching of a cheek and the flicker of an eyelid.
The voice-over as they go back down "Oh, well, might as well get something to eat. Snake Woman cooks dog very well" and the remarks about how Snake women fornicate with horses is worth sitting through the whole movie for, although the entire thing is a tour de force of the first order, if not necessarily historically accurate. At least I hope it wasn't, otherwise it's back to the drawing boards for me.
I love the Martin Balsam character, who has lost another bit of himself every time we see him again, and Jeff Corey as Hickock was an inspired piece of casting. Corey was always a favorite of mine.
Gordie
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Post by Scout on May 28, 2008 20:05:48 GMT -6
"They're whittlin' you down Mr. Merriweather." Jack Crabb is the sole survivor of the Custer fight but I always thought the Balsam character was closer to all the guys who claimed to be ss. I actually got to meet Jeff Corey.
I read Berger was somewhat upset at how the director changed his characters up so much. Custer wasn't that wacky in the book and Berger said he admired him but Penn was revisionist who hated Custer and said so. Still, he made a great satire although I don't know if he thought it was satire. Discuss among yourselves...
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Post by bc on May 28, 2008 23:51:54 GMT -6
Whoever made the movie was definitely anti-custer. Spending all the time looking in the mirror and not wanting to do anything that reversed a custer decision. The way he yelled at his officers all the time. Who was the major he yelled at all the time? He called him major but the guy was with him on LSH.
It was kind of a how the west was won type movie with all the periods that Jack Crabb went through. When it came out, I thought it was a true story except for custer's characterization. But you have to wonder about the NA characterizations. The gay one, the contrary one who did everything backwards, and then when the guy cried when he couldn't please Jack after jack saved his life. Anyway Dustin Hoffman and chief Dan George really made the movie worthwhile.
Also looks like they probably left a lot of movie bullets on the battlefield.
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Post by biggordie on May 28, 2008 23:56:48 GMT -6
Mostly hairpins, bc - I don't think they left much in the way of bullets, possibly some blanks cases [which are easily identifiable].
Gordie
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Post by Melani on May 29, 2008 0:49:42 GMT -6
Well, it's a great movie, if you consider it fiction.
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Post by Scout on May 29, 2008 5:30:27 GMT -6
The last stand in the movie, you know, was filmed near Medicine Tail Coulee and from what I've heard left a lot of movie debris behind from the shoot. This has led Richard Fox to evaluate that the Indians were filming the whole battle.
The Crabb character is a composite of a number of the sole survivor claims. Tons of these guys were close personal friends of Wild Bill, Buffalo Bill, etc. If I remember correctly Calamity Jane was a character in the book Crabb knew. And a lot of these guys also claimed they lived with the Sioux and Cheyenne and knew Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull.
The contrary was a real, albeit it insane, figure in plains Indian culture. Some of them were killed by their own people. Very bizarre stuff.
S
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Post by biggordie on May 29, 2008 8:21:44 GMT -6
You leave that there Fox guy alone. He are the oniest one what can tell who fired at who, what direction they each of them was facing, whether or not that bullet fired really and truly hit anything, whether or not the wound, if setch there was, were mortal or not, if it were mortal - where the body felled and were berried, and where the shooter went to afterward for dins [if he survived - he can tell that too], and what he et at that dins.
And he can tell all this, and prolly more too, jes from one of them used-up bullet thingies what are left after the lead part goes flying off into the distance.
Some folks is jellus of his gifts. I ain't sayin you is one of thems, Old Scout, but your gettin purty near.
Washes In Dirt, survivor
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Post by Melani on May 29, 2008 11:36:12 GMT -6
Scout, can you recommend a (non-fiction!) book with info on the contraries?
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Post by clw on May 29, 2008 14:02:50 GMT -6
I've gotta get this movie. I've never seen it. Mel, contraries are called heyoka and are thunder dreamers. They aren't insane. Young Man Afraid, Crazy Horse, Hump -- off the top of my head, were thunder dreamers. Heyoka do things backward to make folks laugh, but there's a deeper side too. Some men acted out as heyoka all their lives and others for shorter periods according to their visions.
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Post by Scout on May 29, 2008 20:42:46 GMT -6
Melani, sorry but no I can't. I've run across the mention of the contraries here and there but don't know of any specific book on this strange behavior. I have something somewhere in one of my books but will have to jump start my brain to try and remember.
S
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Post by clw on May 30, 2008 5:49:37 GMT -6
Kingsley Bray discusses the thunder dreamers, their society and ways in his book on Crazy Horse. Its probably the most sensitive and accurate information you'll find on the subject.
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Post by bc on May 30, 2008 7:05:58 GMT -6
John Ford/John Wayne movie sighting. Must be their day on Turner classis movies today. Red River is on this afternoon and then starting at 7 pm central time is Fort Apache, She wore a yellow ribbon, and Rio Grande. Get your recorders ready.
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on May 31, 2008 12:09:07 GMT -6
Scout, can you recommend a (non-fiction!) book with info on the contraries?
Melani, the following non-fiction books have information on the contraries, some with more and better information than others. Those with extensive information I have marked *. George Bird Grinnell - The Fighting Cheyennes George Bird Grinnell - The Cheyenne Indians Vol. II* Llewellyn & Hoebel - The Cheyenne Way James O. Dorsey - A Study of Siouan Cults (re Heyoka)* Thomas E. Mails - Dog Soldier Societies of the Plains (The Cheyenne Inverted or Bow String Society)* Thomas E. Mails - The Mystic Warriors of the Plains I would think that those I have marked * have all the information you will need on the subject. Hunk
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