jason
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Posts: 16
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Post by jason on May 16, 2008 10:48:20 GMT -6
My name is Jason and I have been a "lurker" on this board for a few months, and finally decided to join. I've been a Little Big Horn student for almost 20 years, when at age 11, I found a book in my parent's basement. It was a fictional book about Comanche, and looking back, it was completely hokey and far away from reality, but it was a perfect book for a young boy. The book got me hooked. I remember being so excited about my parents taking me to the battlefield when I was 12 years old. I even entered projects about LBH in the county fair a couple of times.
As I got further into my teens, I grew less interested in LBH, but got the bug again about 6 months ago, when I re-read Son of the Morning Star. I have even converted my wife!
So here I am.... Right now, I am especially looking for good books or other documents to help further my knowledge. I see the depth of knowledge that so many people on this board have, and realize that I don't know nearly as much about the battle as I thought I did! My own book collection is shockingly thin (though I think some of my books are probably buried somewhere in my parent's basement). I only able to find Graham's "Custer Myth," "SOTMS," Frost's "Custer Album," some book from the 1990s by Robert Nightengale that claims to have uncovered "shocking new information," and Jim Donovan's latest book. And that's all. A pretty barren LBH bookshelf!
Jason
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Post by biggordie on May 16, 2008 12:26:10 GMT -6
jason:
As the unofficial greeter of these boards, and the duly dubbed Master Of Chaos, let me welcome you to these boards, and also let me encourage you to post your theories and specific questions in the appropriate places on the various threads - you can use the search function at the bottom of the page to look for specific topics.
I went through Iowa a couple of times, and don't remember seeing any people, so I'm glad that the Gummint has finally been able to hornswoggle some citizens into populating the place - I mean, er um, relocating to Paradise.
You should immediately lay your hands on Gray's two books - Centennial Campaign and Custer's Last Campaign - and should get all of the Hardorff books carrying NDN accounts and all of the Walter Camp material you can find. There are many other books which are "mandatory" to any serious study of the fights, but many of them are terribly pricey, rare, and not necessarily available at your local library.
There are several threads featuring either people's LBH libraries or their suggested reading list. Check them out. If you would like further recommendations or have any questions that you want answered without posting them [some members feel too intimidated to ask what they feel might be perceived as "stupid" questions], drop me a PM [click on my name and you'll reach my profile, where you can send a personal message]. I'm always happy to assist anyone seriously interested in the fights.
If I can.
Gordie
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jason
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jason on May 17, 2008 18:58:32 GMT -6
Thanks for the reply. Yes, there are real, live people in Iowa. And we have electricity and running water!
I appreciate the book suggestions. It's time to populate my library, and take my knowledge of the battle on to the intermediate or advanced level. I check the site every day for the latest theories and such.
Jason
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Post by Scout on May 17, 2008 20:30:15 GMT -6
Greetings Jason. Let me suggest you start with any of the Walter Mason Camp books on his notes. Camp is the grandfather of LBH research. I suggest his books because he interviewed actual participants of the battle, both soldier and Indian. The first hand accounts are the best place to start. Be wary of 'shocking new information' books.
Welcome aboard!
S
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Post by Tricia on May 19, 2008 19:36:47 GMT -6
Jason--
The book on Comanche does sound a bit like Margaret Leighton. According to Melani, she offers the best look of Keogh ever written! Kinda sad, eh?
I am the local crazy chick, fascinated by the personalities at Little Bighorn, rather than strict battle movements. But I am best known for--or let's call it infamous--my five year project, a novel about GAC in the spring of 1866. It's called The Russian Diplomat's Daughter: A Novel About George Armstrong Custer. It's 722 pages right now--though I am cutting--and Steve Alexander thinks it is the best portrayal of the Boy General he's ever read--that was simply a wonderment, the highlight of this entire journey. I've actually been accused of channeling GAC ... I've been offered a book signing in Monroe, MI during Custer week, but right now I am wondering if I want to go with a regular publisher or to self-publish. I realised last year just how attached I was to my words ....
Apart from understanding Custer, I am also quite attracted to TWC's story. And I'm just getting to "know" Keogh.
Have a great time here--we're a fun bunch. Note how most of our threads deteriorate into joshing and joking. But you'll learn a lot here--I certainly have.
Trishulya! Chairchick, Not Another Custer Club MST, Brokenswords Nut House
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Post by Melani on May 20, 2008 0:20:31 GMT -6
There are several kid books about Comanche--what was the name, Jason, do you remember? The problem with fictional representations of Keogh is that they tend to give him a shanty-Irish accent and attitude, when in fact he came from a well-off, aristocratic family and was college educated. Margaret Leighton at least avoided that trap, though the book is not completely historically accurate. Even the otherwise incredibly wonderful A Road We Do Not Know depicted Keogh that way. The best non-fiction on him is without a doubt Myles Keogh: The Life and Legend of an "Irish Dragoon" in the Seventh Cavalry, Langellier, Pohanka, and Cox, eds. The Honor of Arms, by Charles Convis, is also pretty good, with lots of quotes from his letters.
If your local library doesn't have what you are looking for, you can usually get stuff through inter-library loans--just tell your librarian what you are looking for, and you usually get the books for three weeks or so. Good luck and welcome!
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Post by Tricia on May 20, 2008 8:33:38 GMT -6
Yes, I agree Melani on the Pohanka narrative--you know, that book I got for $39.99? Hehehe ... just rubbing it in--again.
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Post by Melani on May 20, 2008 8:48:49 GMT -6
Yes, I agree Melani on the Pohanka narrative--you know, that book I got for $39.99? Hehehe ... just rubbing it in--again. Aaarrrggghhh!
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jason
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jason on May 20, 2008 11:02:13 GMT -6
I don't remember the name of the book. In fact, all I really remember is that, towards the end, an Indian takes Comanche, and Comanche kicks the Indian in the chest, and there is a rather graphic description of the Indian bleeding out the mouth, etc. Funny how that's the only thing I remember, but I was only 11 when I read it. The things that stick in a pre-teen boy's mind, I guess! Also, I think the book was told from Comanche's point of view.
Jason
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Post by Melani on May 20, 2008 12:21:46 GMT -6
That sounds like Comanche, by David Appel, the one Walt Disney used for the movie Tonka. I haven't read the book, but have read excerpts, and I saw the movie many times. Hokey is the correct word, though as a child I was charmed to find any movie or book on the subject that entered the popular mainstream. I was lucky running into Margaret Leighton first. I read it again recently--not perfect, but not terrible either.
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Post by alfuso on May 20, 2008 21:36:08 GMT -6
Thanks for the reply. Yes, there are real, live people in Iowa. And we have electricity and running water! I appreciate the book suggestions. It's time to populate my library, and take my knowledge of the battle on to the intermediate or advanced level. I check the site every day for the latest theories and such. Jason And movin' pictures, too. I've actually been to Iowa a few times. I think. alfuso
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Post by alfuso on May 20, 2008 21:41:28 GMT -6
Kicking the "bad" Indian scene is in Tonka (in fact, I believe his name is White Bull) - but is cut out whenever the film is rerun. I do have a copy of the movie which I got off the air quite a few years ago with that scene still intact.
Sal Mineo as a troubled Indian youth in a series of roles of troubled youths. A beloved actor favorite of mine.
My most favoritist book on things Custer is THE CUSTER READER. Terrific overview for any student of Custer. For any books really hard to find even on interlibrary loan (I prefer to own my research books) go to Bookfinder.com.
alfuso
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Post by Tricia on May 20, 2008 22:40:15 GMT -6
This is a great site if you want to learn not only about the battle, but books portraying that hot Sunday in June, 1876. When I worked LSH last year, the temperature was 102 degrees--it wasn't too hard to imagine: a gang of dust, the altitude, thirst, and ample cases of diarrhea/dysentery, a few hours in that sun could push the the living daylights out of you. My current favourite Custer book is Where Custer Fell by James Brust, Brian Pohanka, and Sandy Bernard. It takes you on a tour of the battlefield IN THE CORRECT ORDER!
A wonderful source--and well worth the money and the time. My only problem was its size--you can't exactly tour the battlefield with it in your hands. It's big. But I sold a ton of that book at the Visitor Center ... could you tell that I was a former bookstore manager? The NPS employees kept telling me "thank you!"
And BTW, Melani and I used to haunt the same suburb in northwest Cook County, Illinois. Although she was a few years ahead of me, it was a bit creepy to learn! Once again, it's another case of truth is stranger than fiction! It's just another aspect of typical Custeriana. And what's truly scary there is another Trish who lives in my hometown--same last name!
--t. Chairchick, Not Another Custer Club MST, Brokensword's Nut House
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jason
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jason on May 21, 2008 15:21:19 GMT -6
Luckily, my wife is a professor of Spanish with a specialty in Spanish detective fiction (as in, detective fiction from the country of Spain). She says she has ways of getting, through college libraries and other research loan pipelines (that is my assumption; I really didn't understand all the things she was saying about how to obtain research materials!), almost any book I could want, on loan, no matter how obscure or old. So, I guess I have a built-in advantage in any research I might want to do. For now, though, I am sticking to the basic stuff I can find in bookstores, but as my research gets more advanced, I might need to use her.
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Post by biggordie on May 21, 2008 17:05:14 GMT -6
jason:
If you intend to indulge in SERIOUS research, you should be aware that you cannot limit yourself to what others have written in book form. You have to use the books to get back to the original sources which the authors cite, otherwise you are at the mercy of those authors' honesty and interpretations, and become nothing more than a glorified note-taker and compiler.
It is always best, if you can, to use the original sources to make your own interpretations and arrive at your own conclusions and theories. That is why the Walter Camp material is so important, as are the National Archives and the transcript of the Reno Court Of Inquiry And the voluminous NDN accounts. And the Archaeological record. And the photographic record.
AND [geez, there a lot of "ands"] you MUST visit the battlefields and their approaches so that you can relate to the distances and the terrain involved, and the timing of events.
That Where Custer Fell book is an excellent tool, if properly used.
The Old Know-It-All*
*who has cleverly mislaid 60 or so pages of research materials and must retrace his steps, before being able to complete the chapter on Reno in the valley.
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