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Post by Diane Merkel on Oct 21, 2007 23:29:16 GMT -6
From a website vistor: I have some copies of newspaper articles that state Henry H. Martyn enlisted in the Seventh U. S. Cavalry on April 6, 1876 and was with General Custer at Little Big Horn battle and survived. When I try to search for this online I am unable to substantiate this. Can you offer assistance?
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Post by harpskiddie on Oct 22, 2007 0:03:34 GMT -6
As far as I can tell, there was nobody by that name in the Seventh Cavalry on the campaign, nor with either the Dakota or Montana columns with the other regiments.
Gordie, why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks..........................
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Post by Diane Merkel on Oct 22, 2007 11:20:28 GMT -6
I couldn't find the name anywhere either, so he is perhaps another Sole Survivor. I normally have Scout's book handy for such questions, but it seems to have taken a walk elsewhere.
Scout, have you heard of this guy?
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Post by markland on Oct 22, 2007 13:05:00 GMT -6
From a website vistor: I have some copies of newspaper articles that state Henry H. Martyn enlisted in the Seventh U. S. Cavalry on April 6, 1876 and was with General Custer at Little Big Horn battle and survived. When I try to search for this online I am unable to substantiate this. Can you offer assistance? Source: United States Regular Army Enlistments NARA microfilm series M233 roll 39 Volume M-1876, p. 108, ln. 186 Martin, Henry Enlisted 04/07/1876 in Boston, MA by Capt. Lawton for five years. Born in Manchester, NH. Age is 22 years old. Previous occupation was as a blacksmith. Physical description: gray eyes, dark hair, dark complexion. His height was 67.125 inches (5' 7 1/8"). Assigned to Co. E, 7th Cav. Discharged due to expiration of service on 04/06/1881 at Ft. Meade, Dakota Territory. Character is stated to be "excellent." Source: U. S. Cavalry Regimental Returns Seventh Cavalry Regiment NARA microfilm series M744 roll 72 August, 1876 return: Martyn, Henry was assigned to Co. E, 7th Cav. on August 3, 1876. I consider the Enlistment registers to be a secondary source because even though the clerks in the Adjutant General's Office transcribed the data from primary sources, i.e., regimental returns, enlistment records, final survey & inventories, etc.; errors were made and not detected-at least that has been my experiences using them. Diane, there were only two men with a surname beginning with "M" who enlisted in April, 1876 and were assigned to the 7th Cav. One was Martin/Martyn and the other was, I believe, Mielke or some such name. I just happen to own those reels of film, thus I was able to look them up without a trip to the National Archives or Leavenworth. Billy
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Post by harpskiddie on Oct 22, 2007 13:48:58 GMT -6
Billy:
I've got Max Mielke on his third enlistment from 24 March 1876. Bernard McGurn enlisted also in March by Lieutenant Henry Lawton in Boston [age 24]. There a couple of other March or April enlistments, but nobody comes close to matching the place of enlistment or the description. Since the info you posted is from the August return, is it possible that Martin had not reported by the time the regiment left FAL?
Gordie, I am so afraid of dying, until I see your sea birds flying in the sun.....................................
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Post by markland on Oct 22, 2007 15:50:24 GMT -6
Billy: I've got Max Mielke on his third enlistment from 24 March 1876. Bernard McGurn enlisted also in March by Lieutenant Henry Lawton in Boston [age 24]. There a couple of other March or April enlistments, but nobody comes close to matching the place of enlistment or the description. Since the info you posted is from the August return, is it possible that Martin had not reported by the time the regiment left FAL? Gordie, I am so afraid of dying, until I see your sea birds flying in the sun..................................... Gordie, I did not spot any Martin being assigned to Co. E April-July, inclusive. Tomorrow I will go through those "Gains" for all companies to assure myself and the searcher that he wasn't there. The Mielke or whomever I could have sworn enlisted in April but I did not really look at the enlistment data after seeing the name. His entry was very close to the March entries so it is likely that I messed up on the enlistment month. Billy
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Post by elisabeth on Oct 23, 2007 1:03:48 GMT -6
I was wondering if the difference was that Mielke, with previous service, wouldn't need to do basic training at Jefferson Barracks, whereas Martyn/Martin would. But Nichols has McGurn as a first-time enlistee too -- previous occupation, plumber -- and he made it to FAL in time. ("On detached service at Yellowstone Depot.") If Martyn/Martin wasn't assigned until August, it looks as if something must have delayed his arrival: sick, perhaps?
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Post by markland on Oct 23, 2007 8:52:18 GMT -6
Billy: I've got Max Mielke on his third enlistment from 24 March 1876. Bernard McGurn enlisted also in March by Lieutenant Henry Lawton in Boston [age 24]. There a couple of other March or April enlistments, but nobody comes close to matching the place of enlistment or the description. Since the info you posted is from the August return, is it possible that Martin had not reported by the time the regiment left FAL? Gordie, I am so afraid of dying, until I see your sea birds flying in the sun..................................... The March, 1876 return shows Max Mielke as re-enlisted on March 24, 1876 in Mississippi. He also appears on the June, 1876 return as being at Yellowstone river, sick-wounded. The arrival date appears to be June 28. Bernard McGurn was assigned to Co. B on April 27 as one of 25 recruits for that company. His location is shown as St. Paul, MN. There were a total of 64 recruits for the regiment from the recruiting depot on the April, 1876 return. Theodore Goldin was also one of those recruits. Strangely enough, McGurn does not show up on any of the subsequent returns as being on detached service or absent in any way. Per the April and May returns, Co. B departed Shreveport, LA on April 19 and arrived at St. Paul, MN on April 23. They departed on April 28 (presumably with the recruits assigned to the company) for Bismarck, arriving there on April 30 and crossing the river to Ft. Abraham Lincoln and making camp on May 1. The June return shows Co. B having 5 men absent (two detached duty, two confinement, one sick-none of whom were McGurn.) I wonder where Nichols got the information about McGurn being at Yellowstone Depot? By the way, I looked at all companies to see whether or not McGurn had been erroneously listed with another company and I did not see his name. Oh, and back to the subject of this thread, there is no reference to Henry Martin/Martyn prior to the August, 1876 return. Billy
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Post by elisabeth on Oct 23, 2007 9:09:13 GMT -6
I suppose it's too fanciful to think that as a blacksmith, he might have been too useful to let go? Or that several regiments were squabbling over him? Good craftsmen were very sought-after.
He couldn't have been assigned to another regiment first, and transferred to the 7th because of their sudden loss of blacksmiths, I suppose? Can't remember off-hand whether all five of Custer's companies' blacksmiths were with that battalion o June 25th -- but if they were, they'd be a desperate loss for a cavalry regiment. It'd be necessary to rustle up replacements pretty fast ...
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Post by harpskiddie on Oct 23, 2007 9:28:32 GMT -6
Elisabeth:
As to the 'smiths - All of the Custer companies lost theirs, except Miller of E Company. My rosters show M was already missing one. I also have McGurn detached at the Powder, likely due to the lack of horses for the recruits [although that might be a subject for further debate somewhere else - the actual number of horses, that is].
Gordie, oh, you're a mean old daddy, but I like you......................................................
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Post by scottyhook on Oct 23, 2007 14:15:50 GMT -6
Hi, I am the original requestor of information re: Henry H. Martyn. I have copies of old newsclippings from a newspaper article published in the Lowell Sun about June 1932 and another from Oct.26, 1929. Stating the following: "Henry H. Martyn enlisted in the Seventh U.S. Cavalry on April 6, 1876 and was immediately assigned to FAL. His commander at the fort was Col. S. D. Sturges. Early in June he was assigned the job of blacksmith and ordered back to the pack-train. He was given the chore of shoeing horses and did not ride away with a detachement of men under the command of Gen. Custer . Martyn stayed with the cavalry's pack train under the command of Major Reno and Col. Benteen. The Pack-train was brought orders to advance with ammunition. This order Martyn said was brought to them by his uncle, Charles Martyn, who was the last white man to see Custer before the massacre." "His honorable discharge of sheepskin shows that he was a blacksmith in Co. E of the 7th Cavalry. Signed by Captain C.E. Illsley"
Thank you all who have researched this. I await your recent findings!
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Post by harpskiddie on Oct 23, 2007 14:49:56 GMT -6
Well, I have more bad news for you, scottyhook. There is no record of a Charles Martyn or Martin with the Seventh on the campaign. This could be a reference to John Martin [Giovanni Martini], an orderly trumpeter who carried Custer's last known message to Captain Benteen - the famous:
" Benteen. Come on. Big village. Be Quick. Bring packs. W.W. Cooke
PS Bring packs"
John Martin was Italian, spoke only broken English, and had no relatives in the U.S. The only other messenger, who we know of, was Daniel Knipe, who brought a message for the pack train and for Benteen.
Col. S.D. Sturgis was not at Fort Abraham Lincoln, but in St. Louis as commander of the Recruit Depot, where Henry would have gone initially. The newspaper stories seem to be slightly out of whack.
Gordie, you ache just like a woman, but you break just like a little girl...................................
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Post by Diane Merkel on Oct 23, 2007 18:38:22 GMT -6
Hi, Scottyhook! I'm glad you joined us.
Was Henry Martyn still living when those articles appeared in the papers? I'm asking because I'm wondering if the reporters got the information from him or from family members. I've found that family members often unintentionally get the stories wrong. In this case, I can imagine that someone heard or read that the "Last Messenger" at the Little Bighorn was named Martin, he remembered hearing stories that his ancestor was with the 7th Cavalry in 1876 and, slowly over time, the story became the one you described. It happens quite often.
Even if Henry wasn't present during the battle, he was with one of the most famous regiments in history, so I hope your family can be content with that and be proud of his service.
Diane
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Post by scottyhook on Oct 24, 2007 6:39:15 GMT -6
Henry Martin/Martyn was alive when the articles were done. He claims to have been at the battle, and hearing the massacre. He also claims to have found a tomahawk, that was still attached to a scalp, on the battlefield. The tomahawk and stories have been passed down the generations and I have come across all this and have been trying to verify the item and stories! I have been in touch with some of his other descendants and am awaiting more info from them.
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Post by harpskiddie on Oct 24, 2007 10:39:03 GMT -6
In the meantime, scottyhook, it might be advisable to reconsider any prospective purchase of the tomahawk in question. You don't say whether or not you are a descendant of Henry Martyn/Martin. If you are, take heart in what Diane has posted, and be proud of his service. Having apparently missed the fights on the Little Horn, it is possible that he participated in the campaign against the Nez Perce in 1877.
According to my records, E Company WAS in the field, under its 1st Lieutenant, DeRudio [who had been at the Little Horn], but did not engage any hostiles.
Gordie, I met her, accidentally, in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and it tore me up every time I heard her drawl, southern drawl....................................................................................
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