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Post by Tricia on Jan 9, 2008 10:55:53 GMT -6
As I was listening to Rob Thomas and Santana this morning, a line in their song struck me and got my mind to thinking.
Where did the handle "Monaseetah" come from? Was she always carrying this name?
If one looks at Custer's description of the fair maid, was he describing the Mona Lisa? Had Meotzi sponsored a da Vinci moment?
I've got to wonder ... or maybe my Art History degree is taking over logical thoughts.
--t.
Back on the boards and all is doing better. Had a sinus infection and then I had a severe allergic reactions to the anti-biotic I was prescribed ... I guess when it rains, it pours!
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Post by elisabeth on Jan 9, 2008 13:55:46 GMT -6
Trish, good to see you back.
Libbie says she had another name as well: Nav-a-rouc-ta. And that Mo-nah-se-tah (as Libbie spells it) translates as "The grass that shoots in the spring". I have no idea if that's right, nor whether the syllable breakdowns she gives are correct, nor what the first name means. Maybe if there's someone around here who's familiar with the Cheyenne language, they could tell us? But yes, you could be right that the similarity of sound helped the "Monaseetah" name to stick in the mythology ...
Anyone know why "Meotzi", by the way? Is it a diminutive? Or yet a third name?
Just wondering: was the Mona Lisa the universal icon in the 1860s/70s that it is today? Possibly it was; I can't, off-hand, remember any references to it. Could be that it only became so once easier foreign travel and cheap colour reproductions popularised it -- e.g. maybe in the 1890s or after. Would be interesting to know.
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Post by gary on Jan 10, 2008 5:30:21 GMT -6
Peter Harrison's forthcoming book on Monasetah will address the question of her name. As I understand it, neither Meotzi nor Monasetah are correct versions of her original Cheyenne name. "The Grass That Shoots in the Spring" seems to be a romantic fabrication by GAC.
My personal theory is that the name came from the the interpreter, Raphael Romero, who was part Mexican and who could not in fact speak Cheyenne at the time. I believe that it is a Spanish diminutive of Mona; Monasita (little Mona).
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Post by elisabeth on Jan 10, 2008 6:44:33 GMT -6
Lovely idea! "Mona", I believe, is "monkey" in Spanish. So he'd be calling her "little monkey", "little rascal". Sounds fitting ... Found this nifty online Cheyenne dictionary: cheyenne.110mb.com/lexicon/main.htmFrom this, it looks as if the prefix "mona" means "new", "young", "fresh", which could possibly fit the "Grass that Shoots in the Spring" version after all -- but I can't see anything that bears out the rest. Anyway, I think I like your interpretation better!
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Post by gary on Jan 10, 2008 7:51:32 GMT -6
Thanks for the link to the Cheyenne lexicon. I'd not seen that before. Dull Knife College publish a list of Cheyenne names with translations where available, but that doesn't help much either. The College also publishes Cheyenne dictionaries. For anyone who's interested, the books can be bought (or downloaded) through www.lulu.com.
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Post by crzhrs on Jan 10, 2008 9:55:10 GMT -6
Where's Nat King Cole when you need him?
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Post by harpskiddie on Jan 10, 2008 11:33:21 GMT -6
Many dreams have been brought to your doorstep. They just lie there; and they die there...........
Gordie MC missing Cole
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Post by elisabeth on Jan 10, 2008 11:40:01 GMT -6
From a swift and superficial bit of Googling, it appears that the elevation of the Mona Lisa to cult status only began when the critic Walter Pater wrote glowingly of the painting in 1867. It may be patronising to assume that he wouldn't be the first choice of reading for 7th Cavalry officers on the frontier, but it does seem unlikely that his work would have had much impact on their thinking by late 1868 ...
Still, there could be some subliminal connection for later readers of My Life on the Plains and Following the Guidon, making the name stick in the memory. It's also very close in metre to "Minnehaha, Laughing Water" from Hiawatha, which also may not have hurt. (Longfellow may not have been so far out on that, incidentally; isn't "mini" the Sioux word for water? Wonder what research he did.)
gary, do you know when the Harrison book is due out?
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Post by Tricia on Jan 10, 2008 14:54:48 GMT -6
And in addition, GAC often haunted the halls of artist's galleries whilst in NY. So, he tried to be an art appreciator and may have very well been acquainted with the famous painting. I know I was grasping at straws, but reading that description now it reads as dreamy as the smile on ol' Mona Lisa
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Post by crzhrs on Jan 11, 2008 9:48:22 GMT -6
Were there any reproductions of the Mona Lisa on display in the US at the time?
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Post by Tricia on Jan 11, 2008 15:48:48 GMT -6
Were there any reproductions of the Mona Lisa on display in the US at the time? I'll check it out, Crazed one. Certainly the pre-Raphaelites found inspiration from the early Renaissance and I wouldn't be suprised that the daVinci painting could be found anywhere, especially among those galleries that kept up with the latest trends. I'm trying to recall when the National Portrait Gallery in London got their hands on a equally beautiful Leonardo work: The Madonna on the Rocks. It has many similarities to ol' Mona: the hint of the smile, the sfumato, and yadda, yadda, yadda ....
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 11, 2008 18:07:13 GMT -6
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Post by Tricia on Jan 11, 2008 19:26:18 GMT -6
Drat ... the Leonardo painting presented above wasn't bought until 1880 ....
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Post by Tricia on Jan 11, 2008 19:33:31 GMT -6
Here is a web entry about Mona Lisa (La Gionconda) which makes me believe that the painting was very well-known in the 1800s, perhaps even by Custer and certainly, Libbie:
Accessible to the public once again, the painting became a popular hit. This was the great Romantic era, and Leonardo was again a hero. McMullen quips that "Leonardolatry encouraged Giocondolatry." The number of painted copies and engraved reproductions multiplied. Writers and poets from the Marquis de Sade to Jules Michelet referred to her; for example, George Sand described a character as having "a certain smile, mysterious like that of Mona Lisa, which she had on her lips and in the corner of an eye." She was called a femme fatale, adding intrigue and passion to an already heady mix. By the mid-1800s she was an icon, the most celebrated painting in the world, famous for being famous.
Looks like GAC did know Monaseetah's competition in the art world. --t.
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Post by gary on Mar 15, 2008 3:54:34 GMT -6
This is the publishers blurb on a new book purtporting to be a biography of Monasetah:
"PRINCESS MONAHSETAH, The Concealed Wife Of General Custer, is a riveting book written by Gail Custer. She is the great great granddaughter of General George Armstrong Custer and Monahsetah, the daughter of Cheyenne Chief Little Rock, of the Washita. This book is a masterpiece, derived from the memories of Monahsetah. It portrays the true story of how General Custer met Monahsetah immediately following the Washita battle, which resulted in a Cheyenne marriage ceremony, and how Gail takes us forward with their lives. Gail encased the private lives of her ancestors, including Yellow Hair, the only child of General Custer. She also introduces us to the true account of Monahsetah's first cousin, Crazy Horse. This absorbing book exposes the close friendship of General Custer and Crazy Horse, not excluding the times they were enemies, simultaneously as well. Gail draws you in and gives attention to detail on how General Custer was much more than just a military leader and Indian fighter. Being quite evident, she reveals his passion for the Cheyenne. This book sojourns through out General Custer's military career and displays how Monahsetah and their son is forever entwined. It is evident in this book that both worlds of General Custer, merge and often collide, resulting in exhilaration and despair as well, to all those involved. Gail Custer did justice in presenting us with the truth of her ancestor's lives and loves. You will want to pick this book up and read it over and again."
Kingsley Bray overlooked the "close friendship" between Crazy Horse and Custer in his recent biography of the famous Oglala leader. He may also be interested to learn that Crazy Horse was Monasetah's cousin.
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