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Post by Tricia on Nov 11, 2006 9:52:45 GMT -6
All--
At the risk of interrupting discussions about the timing of the battle and the placement of the Crow's Nest(s), I'm asking a question that both Gordie and Diane have stuck in my head. Though it'll hardly be a scientific poll, I want to get a general feeling of where y'all stand on the "Libbie Question." I hope to include the results in my forthcoming article about Tom Custer. If you want to comment, fine, but votes are more important.
I maintain that there may have been some blatant adoration on TWC's part, but it was strictly one-sided.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by elisabeth on Nov 11, 2006 11:34:12 GMT -6
Intriguing notion. I've voted "not enough information to judge", but with a leaning towards "no" for the following reasons: (1) TWC seems to have been quite busily occupied with other young ladies. One gets no sense of him pining away with unrequited love for Libbie. (2) He seems to have treated her fairly brusquely for the most part. Look at his reaction to the nightshirts affair! If there were much adoration going on, he'd be fulsome in his thanks to her for making the things; instead, he criticises the collar design, the trimmings, you name it. (3) For all her good looks, for all her spirit, we shouldn't forget that she's three years older than him! Doesn't sound a lot, but in an era when women were old at 30, three years might seem a big, big gap ...
I could be very wrong, but the feeling I get is that Tom looked upon her rather as any little boy looks at the little girl who tags along on the boys' expeditions: to be alternately ignored and tormented. With a touch of the schoolmarm as well at times, when Libbie goes into one of her temperance lectures.
Tom's straight from Central Casting as the scapegrace younger brother, a trouble to all. Whether he was beginning to grow up a bit at the time of LBH I don't know, but there's not much sign of it ...
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Post by harpskiddie on Nov 11, 2006 11:45:12 GMT -6
Hey there missie!!! How'd y'all git me mixed up in thishere thang?
Gordie
PS I vote no.
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Post by Tricia on Nov 11, 2006 13:04:04 GMT -6
Hey there missie!!! How'd y'all git me mixed up in thishere thang? Gordie Gordometer-- Uhh, I thought it was you who originally pondered the idea that had GAC ended up dead on the Summer Campaign of 1876, Tom would immediately take up with the Widow Custer--well, as soon as deep mourning permitted. If you didn't hatch that hypothesis--and admittedly, it's just that--well, it still spawned some interesting thought processes! Thanks for participating ... and now back to our regularly scheduled programme ... LMC
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Post by Tricia on Nov 11, 2006 13:37:50 GMT -6
Elisabeth-- You make some interesting points, indeed, and you may very well be correct. I'm sort of going on a hunch, because in reality, as you have noted above, there really wasn't enough evidence to make an intelligent assumption whether he was or wasn't. But it was an odd threesome, wasn't it? A campaign menage-a-trois, so to speak. From discussions we have shared via email--especially about Mark Miner's article about Rebecca (Becka) Minerd--there does seem to be a kind of "love 'em and leave 'em" attitude on the part of Tom, who received some of the more sensual rewards of being the major general's little brother, and always seemed to get away with relationship murder. This treatment, seems to re-emerge (if it ever left) shortly after his fiancee's death in 1875, when he quickly takes up with one of the Wadsworth sisters ... I have always thought it was a bit tacky. So, my question is, was TWC's "treatment" of Libbie really anything beyond his noted--well, ahem--romantic (a loose terminology here) style? In the sense that you so splendidly pointed out--that he never actually grew up, was Tom then the the little boy who showed his affection by pulling the little girl's braids? Or claiming to have lost a rattlesnake in his camp tent, forcing Libbie to climb on the nearest trunk or cot? But from Libbie's point of view, Tom seemed to be her pet project; the errant boy who desperately needed saving from one bad habit or another, and on this, I completely agree; I'm not sure TWC relished that side of his sister-in-law ... I'm including the photo--taken in 1865--that has forced a few of my writer friends to pause. There is a certain discomfort to the image, well, at least I think so: LMC
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Post by wild on Nov 11, 2006 18:40:21 GMT -6
Why did Custer always look like death warmed up/
There is a certain discomfort to the image, well, at least I think so: That's because George has his elbow resting on Tom's medals
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Post by alfuso on Nov 11, 2006 20:14:35 GMT -6
I proposed something similar once, and got thoroughly trashed for it, I "daresay"
I still think that Tom and Libbie might have gotten married had he survived. If only because the Victorians believed in the biblical edict for a brother to take his brother's widow in. It was not uncommon.
alfuso
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Post by Tricia on Nov 11, 2006 21:24:13 GMT -6
Let them go ahead and trash; it's really just a passing thought, a mere hypothesis, but it's one shared by more than one or two folks out there. And since it is, I don't think it is entirely silly to get a gauge on the subject. As I said, it will--at most--be a mention in an article-length biography about Tom. Besides, we tend to forget this place is more than The Battle board. Alfuso, you make a good point about how a spouse, when widowed, tended to remarry within the family--at least in the Victorian Era.
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Post by Tricia on Nov 11, 2006 21:26:45 GMT -6
Why did Custer always look like death warmed up/ There is a certain discomfort to the image, well, at least I think so:That's because George has his elbow resting on Tom's medals Those silly "baubles," eh?
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Post by Hostler on Nov 12, 2006 1:17:06 GMT -6
Well wouldn't that have been a "foine shindy" as the Irish say? For instance if Tom had survived with a small handful of men on LSH, then in theory he would have been serving under Reno when the regiment re-combined. Unless some fast promotions and transfers took place. Even if Tom had been promoted to Major, Reno would still have ranked him. How would Mrs. Tom (Libbie) Custer have taken to living on the same post as Reno? Imagine Libbie going after Marcus with her purse! Also it would have been a couple steps down socially for Libbie to have married Tom as she wouldn't have had the same perks as a General's or the Commander's wife. This would have included whether they would even rate housing at some posts. Romance might have eventually prevailed but there would have been some donnybrooks along the way. Benteen would have needed to hire a secretary to help write all the letters with the fodder this would have given him. He might have ended up sitting in his tent with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. With Libbie watching Reno like a hawk, he might not have been able to go window peeking either. Ah yes, it would have made for an interesting bit of hanky panky in the West.
Regards, Hostler PS, I vote.......well, maybe. But then again maybe not....dang it...
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Post by alfuso on Nov 12, 2006 7:52:43 GMT -6
well now, Hostler, I think they could have been fairly comfortable in "retirement". Libbie with her General's pension and Tom with his Captain's. Could have been a tidy sum. Not to mention the fame that would go with being the General's brother. Go on the lecture circuit, write a few books. . .
alfuso
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Post by crzhrs on Nov 12, 2006 10:55:29 GMT -6
The strategically placed elbow by GAC towards his brother's "medals" may be just a coincidence or was the brotherly rivalry still fore bore?
"You mess with my woman and elbow to the nether regions . . . which will make you not quite capable of fulfilling any "desires" you may have.
We know the rivalry about the two Medals of Honor Tom won . . . but did it go further than that?
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Post by Hostler on Nov 12, 2006 11:15:54 GMT -6
CRZHRS,
Could very well be. George and Tom look very serious while Libbie's expression reminds me of when Sylvester has just caught Tweetie......
Regards, Hostler
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Post by Tricia on Nov 13, 2006 17:28:06 GMT -6
Where are the medals, you say? Actually, this is a bit of a trick--though unintended--on my part. This photo is dated January 3, 1865, which predates Tom's getting them! As for looking like Death Awakened, maybe the brothers Custer are still recovering from New Year's?
As for the TWC and GAC rivalry, I'm sure there really was one, but I don't think Libbie was the center of it ...
Regards--and don't even think about teasing me about the Razorbacks' top five ranking-- LMC
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Post by wild on Nov 14, 2006 7:27:31 GMT -6
As for looking like Death Awakened, maybe the brothers Custer are still recovering from New Year's? Good God the man was 26 when the photo was taken.Someone should do some research on how army rations speeds up the ageing process or was Libbie very demanding?
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