|
Post by Melani on Feb 19, 2008 13:40:46 GMT -6
Boy, it would be fun to see that Richmond newspaper!
Cat, you've certainly come to the right place. Custer seems to have gotten along okay with Keogh--up to a point. Diane put us on to a series of letters, mostly from Autie to Libbie, that were up for auction last year, and were reproduced online. At least one of them seemed to indicate that Custer thought Keogh was after Libbie--and for all we know, he may have been right. But if I've got my dates right, it was also at about that time that Keogh and Custer were running around New York on leave together--go figure. (Not at home now, can't check dates) And then Keogh went to meet Libbie upstate and escort her on the train. It might explain Keogh's posting to Fort Totten--"hm, how far away can I send him?"
|
|
cat
New Member
Posts: 12
|
Post by cat on Feb 19, 2008 13:59:18 GMT -6
I assumed that it was Eliza, but the Richmond Whig report is interesting in and of itself as Civil War reportage. No, I don't think that Eliza and the "Gineral" were having relations, regardless of what Benteen says. However, I do think GAC had numerous affairs. Yes, numerous. His letters to Libbie smack of he doth protest too much. And she, would retaliate with reports of male attention. I don't think Libbie acted upon her flirtations. I think the General did.
|
|
cat
New Member
Posts: 12
|
Post by cat on Feb 19, 2008 14:04:32 GMT -6
There have been a lot of interesting new Custer items that have come to light. I particularly like the photos of Custer in tux with monocle!
On a side note, there has been discussion that GAC didn't attend his father-in-law's funeral. I have someone searching in Monroe for details. It certainly doesn't seem characteristic of GAC. He and the Judge seemingly had a cordial relationship after the initial distaste on the part of the Judge.
|
|
cat
New Member
Posts: 12
|
Post by cat on Feb 19, 2008 14:06:59 GMT -6
If there's any interest in Clara Kellogg; I'm on her trail and trying to dig into correspondence. I have also found an ancestor of the Fifield family, and am waiting for information.
|
|
|
Post by elisabeth on Feb 19, 2008 14:52:27 GMT -6
Great stuff, Eric .(Of course!)
The Confederate newspapers of the day took a lot of pleasure in describing Eliza as the Mrs. Custer present -- so whether true or not (and why wouldn't it be? red-blooded young man, interesting young woman) the story was going the rounds. And ... Libbie fires her summarily in 1869, allegedly for "insolence" (which hitherto had been her stock in trade), so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Libbie had belatedly discovered the relationship and reacted to it ...
cat, where did you find that letter? It's pure dynamite. Lovely! Gosh, I do hope you can pin down the handwriting.
There seem to be a number of suggestions that Custer was in the habit of "taking advantage of" their young lady visitors (Anna Darrah being a case in point), so it mightn't be too surprising with the Wadsworth girls as well ... Especially as Tom and Cooke were enamoured of them too. Stealing/sharing someone else's girl seemed to be one of his entertainments -- as per the Mrs. Hough business in New York in 1871. Keogh had (or pretended to have) an infatuation with Mrs. Hough, and the moment Keogh was posted away to Kentucky Custer moved in on her. No misbebaviour as such documented, but he boasts to Libbie of having been shown Mrs. Hough's love-letters from Keogh -- so, a pretty intimate relationship.
As for the Custer/Keogh relationship: well, curious. When they first met, in 1862, it was Keogh who was the war hero; Custer as yet had done little. So (just possibly) he felt at a disadvantage ever after? But far more interestingly, a bunch of Custer's letters came up not long ago in an auction, indicating that Keogh was having a fair attempt at seducing Libbie. From the way the letters continue, it seems that Custer believed (or chose to believe for the moment) that Keogh hadn't succeeded ... but who knows, maybe the doubt continued. And, indeed, maybe the Keogh/Libbie relationship. If you look at the photo of the Heart River outing, any dispassionate observer would conclude that it was Keogh and Libbie who were an item, and that Custer was the outsider. This sort of closeness could have led Custer to resent him ...?
But there could have been other reasons. Still -- interesting, eh?
|
|
|
Post by ericwittenberg on Feb 19, 2008 15:05:17 GMT -6
Thanks, Elisabeth. Much obliged.
I feel reasonably confident that I know Trevilian Station pretty well at this point. What I'm not an expert in is Autie's affairs of the heart.
Eric
|
|
cat
New Member
Posts: 12
|
Post by cat on Feb 19, 2008 19:26:09 GMT -6
Elisabeth...the letter is amongst Libbie's archived letters. There is much to wade through, and much that hasn't been waded through. As the future owner may not allow access at all, I hope to gain access to sift through them ALL, unseen and seen, soon.
Libbie and Eliza were friends in later life, so it's hard to determine if there was ever animosity due to infidelity. Once again, Libbie put up with ANYTHING from GAC.
|
|
cat
New Member
Posts: 12
|
Post by cat on Feb 19, 2008 19:35:22 GMT -6
The Richmond Whig is available for viewing at the University of Oregon library special collections on microfilm. I believe that it is also available at National Archives in DC. There are great people there that are very helpful, and accomodating. Boy, Brian Pohanka sure had the right idea as a kid. Nat Archives are fascinating. I could spend days and days there. I should have spent far more time than I did there when I worked in DC.
|
|
cat
New Member
Posts: 12
|
Post by cat on Feb 19, 2008 19:59:49 GMT -6
Thomas Weir was notoriously attracted to Libbie at one point, and GAC still had him around, and seemingly liked him well enough, although he cautioned Libbie about his company. Going after his wife didn't seem to be a deterent to friendship with GAC, as long as he felt the victor, which; apprently he always did. I agree with Elisabeth about the professional competitiveness. I thought that maybe it was more professional with Keogh than personal. Perhaps because Keogh had been around as a soldier, and was lauded in places other than the US, GAC felt annoyance. He did so like to be the most favored, and celebrated.
Chief Plenty Coups (of the State park fame) personally liked GAC, and the Chief was intelligent, resourceful and seemingly good natured with a fine sense of humor. I sensed immediately in reading about the chief, and discussing him with a Crow lady from the State park, that he was a fine person. If the Chief liked GAC, he must have had a way about him, even if not everyone bought into it. I think GAC's temper with people was fierce, but short lived, and he didn't seem to hold grudges. So, maybe he actually enjoyed Keogh outside of his professional jealously?
|
|
|
Post by Diane Merkel on Feb 19, 2008 21:15:30 GMT -6
This has turned into quite a thread, especiallly considering it's on the Tupperware board! Very interesting, all.
Cat, I'm glad you joined us. It's obvious that you fit right in. I hope we all can get some answers.
On a side note to Eric's post [BTW, if you ever get a chance to go on a tour of the Battle of Trevilian Station with Eric, do it!] I just learned late last week that Jacob Lyman Greene's Civil War trunk will soon be in a national repository so that researchers will have access to its contents. He was GAC's best man and great friend, and there are some GAC items that have never been published. I have not seen the contents, but I've got the inventory list around here somewhere. The trunk is a treasure, and I am very pleased it will be accessible after all these years.
|
|
|
Post by alfuso on Feb 19, 2008 22:41:26 GMT -6
I'm sure Libbie was happiest when they wee locked in together at Fort Lincoln and she had GAC all to herself, as it were.
Divorce in victorian times (and even later) was an ugly affair with the woman often coming out on the short end. usually not trained to go into the work force. Women then didn't automatically get custody of their children, even if their husband was a philandering fungus. Woman bore the stigma of divorce much more than men - *she* had somehow failed the marraige.
I remember that when I was growing up in the 50's, divorce was ugly and to be avoided at all costs (it cost my mother plenty emotionally and financially to divorce, but then she caught her husband in bed with another umm, "husband")
So married women often "put up" with a lot from their husbands. But often paid back within the marriage, which just pushed a husband into infidelity.
Let's face it, GAC had more than his share of groupies and being immature until his later 30's, he probably acted on willing females presenting themselves.
Divorced women were seen as "loose" because, after all, they had been "doing it" while married so surely they still wanted to and were willing to since they had to be hungry for a man, right? That was the outlook I recall.
How would Libbie have fared as a divorcee? Look how she had to scrape by even as his widow, relying on the name CUSTER to get her through. She took a "refined" ladies' job answering letters and signing her CUSTER name. How many other women had to depend on their family and scrape by and hope to find another husband?
Remember the tale GAC wrote of meeting a man of mean, going to dinner at his place with several other men of means, so to speak, to find out the man forbid his wife to join them at the table? GAC was appalled.
Consider too, that flirting was an art form then as long as married people didn't act on it. Libbie, by all accounts, was a prize flirter.
We're also talking about a time when "uppity" women could be put into asylums for "brain fever" by their families or husbands. For years. With no reading or writing matter allowed because it might tax their brain.
Libbie and Eliza were friends later most likely because they got together and told GAC-stories and laughed themselves raw. As we hens often do around a table with our girlfriends...
alfuso
|
|
|
Post by alfuso on Feb 19, 2008 23:20:12 GMT -6
Thomas Weir was notoriously attracted to Libbie at one point, and GAC still had him around, and seemingly liked him well enough, although he cautioned Libbie about his company. Going after his wife didn't seem to be a deterent to friendship with GAC, as long as he felt the victor, which; apprently he always did. I agree with Elisabeth about the professional competitiveness. I thought that maybe it was more professional with Keogh than personal. Perhaps because Keogh had been around as a soldier, and was lauded in places other than the US, GAC felt annoyance. He did so like to be the most favored, and celebrated. Chief Plenty Coups (of the State park fame) personally liked GAC, and the Chief was intelligent, resourceful and seemingly good natured with a fine sense of humor. I sensed immediately in reading about the chief, and discussing him with a Crow lady from the State park, that he was a fine person. If the Chief liked GAC, he must have had a way about him, even if not everyone bought into it. I think GAC's temper with people was fierce, but short lived, and he didn't seem to hold grudges. So, maybe he actually enjoyed Keogh outside of his professional jealously? according to Burkeman, Custer would flare in temper and just unleash some nasty intimidations. Best return to that was to just stand your ground silently, then walk away. Soon thereafter, GAC would come round with some gesture of apology. Never actaully said "sorry" but made some gesture in a small gift or friendly aside. I've worked with people like that. I've even done it myself when pushed too far. Weir appeared to have been attracted to Libbie, and she to him - he was, after all, well-spoken, quoted poetry. Fairly refined sort which would appeal to Libble. I think he made her preen. and GAC wanted her preening for no one else but him. alfuso
|
|
|
Post by Melani on Feb 19, 2008 23:42:22 GMT -6
I think Weir was considered the cultural prize of the regiment--college-educated, one of the few who could discuss something besides ridin' and shootin'. He was after Annie Roberts, as well, but she had the common sense to choose George Yates instead; Weir seems to have been a problem drinker for many years. That must have been the one big flaw in Capt. Cultured Conversationalist.
I read somewhere that Keogh was considered the best-looking guy in the regiment (I certainly agree!), and he was equally well-educated, not to mention a probable touch of the ol' Irish silver tongue. And I'm pretty sure he didn't drink quite as much as Weir. Flirting must have been a major part of the entertainment on social occasions.
The Heart River photo is really interesting: Keogh leaning possessively on the back of Libbie's chair, while GAC has his back partially to them looking petulant. Must have been quite a picnic!
|
|
|
Post by elisabeth on Feb 20, 2008 2:48:36 GMT -6
Yes, that photo speaks volumes!
Cat, thanks for that brilliant stuff about the Wadsworths. I'd burrowed around in their family tree online, but had feebly concluded in the end that the girls weren't related to Craig. This is great.
On the Eliza story, I don't know if this is the same Richmond Whig piece -- it's from Sexual Misbehavior in the Civil War by Thomas P. Lowry, p. 264-5, and he says he has only the clipping, with no source or date -- but here goes for the entertainment of all: "Miscegenation --- A good story is told by a Lynchburg soldier who was in the fight with Sheridan and Custer at Trevillian Depot near Louisa Court House. Hampton captured Carter's [sic] headquarters, taking therefrom his commission, a picture of the wife he left at home, and another piece of camp equipage in the shape of a mulatto woman who was temporarily supplying the place of Mrs. Custer. The paramour was in a carriage attended by another darkey, and when our boys made the charge the black driver fled leaving Mrs. Custer and her carriage in their hands. One of our soldiers, whose name has been given to us, mounted the carriage intending to drive it to the rear, but being hard pressed by the enemy he descended from his box, cut loose the horses, and, by the aid of some of his fellows, toppled the carriage containing the colored lady, over a precipice. They stayed long enough to enjoy the fun, and to hear the cries of her ladyship, who, shut up in the carriage, was gravitating to the depths below. Custer afterwards sent for the articles that were captured, including his wife's picture, but made no enquiry about his colored spouse. This is a veritable truth, and 'we tell the tale as 'twas told to us'."
Re Weir versus Keogh: a lot might depend on what Weir was like when drunk. We don't seem to have a lot of evidence on that, except from these recent auction letters; there's one where Custer has put Weir in arrest, and it sounds from the circumstances as if Weir gets loud and abusive when in his cups. By contrast, Libbie told Luce years later that Keogh never did, but "was always happy and in a singing mood". So he must have been much pleasanter to have around, even after he'd been at the bottle. In those same letters, Custer makes some comment -- I forget the exact wording -- about Weir's characteristic lack of energy. For all the poetry-spouting, he sounds basically like a bit of a drip. OK to feed Libbie's ego, but not nearly as entertaining as Keogh, I would think ...
|
|
|
Post by alfuso on Feb 20, 2008 3:41:12 GMT -6
I rather got the impression that Weir was a maudlin dip when in his cups.
Keogh was the better flirt.
I knew a Welsh actor who, when he got drunk, was either 1. maudlin 2. beligerant or 3. very happy. Such a career he could have had if he'd been more disciplined with his cups. Instead, today he looks like a beached whale and gets bung roles. (well, he did do a good turn on a Torchwood last season)
He was also pounced on any female who opened her legs for him, even though he had a wonderful wife (whom I got to know). He absolutely couldn't see "why not?" His philosophy was well, if a female offers herself, why shouldn't I? Marriage and fidelity were abstracts to him. He didn't see himself as being unfaithful, just taking up an offer. After all, HE wasn't "going after" women, they were going after him. So why not bed them? (But if his wife had done the same, there would have been a meltdown.)
He told me a tale of how he came back to his hotel room and found a woman in bed waiting for him. So, of course, he took the offer. (That someone had gotten by hotel security and into his room never occurred to him.)
"What could I do?" he said. "There she was, all laid out for me." I told him he should have showed her the door and read the riot act to hotel security. He absolutely didn't "get it"
alfuso
|
|