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Post by Tony on Jan 25, 2006 13:38:42 GMT -6
Leyton--yes it was White Cow Bull. I know some of his stories where self serving, but I don't think this one was. Why would it be---here he is proclaming his love and want of marriage to someone outside his tribe that had been disgraced--you would usually keep that to yourself. he describes the reason--she was disgraced by a white leader who fathered her son--has to be somewhat true, don't you think? If I am not mistaken, he even named the white leader as "Long Hair"--now that has some validity to it!--It must have been known throught out the encampment that Custer was the father-- there was no doubt among the warriors--she could not marry a Chy. due to this.
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Post by Tricia on Jan 25, 2006 15:29:27 GMT -6
Tony--
I do tend to agree with you; I was just playing devil's advocate--you know, can't believe anything that WCB says! However, I'm not one of those who think its been proven--beyond a shadow of a doubt--that GAC fathered Meotzi's kid. Seems the kid did have an Anglo dad, but I'm not so sure it was his ... or if they were in any kind of an exclusive relationship (well, as exclusive as a captor/captive thing can be). I think Benteen made a comment of how Tom Custer enjoyed cuckolding his brother with the Indian mistress. I think Meotzi was just someone to be passed around from officer to officer and we may never be able to tell with certainty who fathered that child. And of course, Tom Custer's body received the most brutal treatment at LBH. Someone had it out for him; there may be some answers with Meotzi's family and friends. TWC's mutilations might have served as a final judgment, if you will, of his attitudes towards women.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by Tricia on Jan 25, 2006 15:51:22 GMT -6
Crzhrs--
Yeah, she didn't die until 1875, and for the life of me, I can't remember exactly when they met, but I'm sure it was sometime in the early 1870s. Tom did father at least one child in either 1867 or 1870, and unless an understanding was made--done very privately between the two families in question--he did nothing for his kid--no provisions in his will, nothing. I'm wondering that if the kid was born in 1867, and if the Custer family protected Tom from realising the full consequences of his actions, that sense of "I can't be touched" might have affected his treatment of Meotzi ... seems Meotzi's relatives might have gotten the last laugh in that respect!
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by crzhrs on Jan 26, 2006 7:27:27 GMT -6
What ever happened to Tom's child? And was he that cold-hearted never to have anything to do with it?
The bodies of the Custer brothers on LSH were found in vastly different "conditions." GAC was found mostly not disfigured, while TC was almost unrecognizable. Since both had long-contacts and dealings with the Cheyenne and it was near the Cheyenne village where they died, it seems likely that they were recognized after the battle. Did the Cheyennes who had some dealings with the brothers protect GAC from being touched because of his possible ties and/or "marriage" to Meotzi, while TC was butchered by other Cheyennes because of his treatment of Cheyenne woman?
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Post by shatonska on Jan 26, 2006 8:02:28 GMT -6
What ever happened to Tom's child? And was he that cold-hearted never to have anything to do with it? The bodies of the Custer brothers on LSH were found in vastly different "conditions." GAC was found mostly not disfigured, while TC was almost unrecognizable. Since both had long-contacts and dealings with the Cheyenne and it was near the Cheyenne village where they died, it seems likely that they were recognized after the battle. Did the Cheyennes who had some dealings with the brothers protect GAC from being touched because of his possible ties and/or "marriage" to Meotzi, while TC was butchered by other Cheyennes because of his treatment of Cheyenne woman? good point ! for the WCB account , i think there is confusion and exagerations in it but a lot of truth too he is the only one who saw the 3 crows scout shooting in the village , these scouts shooted in the village from west side of weir point as they told in an account in camp's notes , so WCB was at mt ford and saw them maybe exagerating in sayng he responded the fire, anyway he is not a lyar
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Post by Tricia on Jan 26, 2006 11:00:10 GMT -6
Crzhrs--
Tom's child, Thomas C. Custer, married, and died (I'm going from memory here) in 1896 ... childless. Of course, given Tom's personal history, there may be others out there--or to be precise, it's not beyond the realm of possibility. As for the battle, it does seem kind of weird that we have Rain In The Face saying he couldn't recognise anyone--despite having a history with TWC--and the Cheyenne women who did ...
But Tom's treatment of said kid seems rather heartless, at least by our standards.
Regards, LMC
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Post by saheyala on Jun 12, 2009 13:11:07 GMT -6
Finding this blog and reading it was completely surreal. I had to actually step away from my desk and take a few moments to digest it all before I posted a response.
GAC's child with the Cheyenne woman did not disappear. I am a direct descendant of Monaseetah and my mother named me Saheyala Win at birth. Saheyala Win is translated to Cheyenne Woman, which, as the story was told to me is what Monaseetah was called by her captive (GAC). Her son, my great, great grandfather, knew who his father is and there was no doubt in that. He past those stories down to my great grandfather, which then went to his daughter, my grandmother, and finally to my mother.
I found a photo posted online that is said to be the child of Monaseetah and it is actually (I understand it to be) a photo of my great grandfather, who is the grandson of Monaseetah. I have a photo of my great, great grandfather, the son of GAC, with his wife and his mother, Monaseetah (she is very old in the photo), among other family members. My great, great grandfather’s wife was Lakota, which explains why the photo of the man posted online does not show blond streaks in the hair. His looks, as an older man, are quite different than the man in the photo, which is what I believe most of you are referring to.
I have no reason to believe any differently than what my parents, and grandparents have told me of our history. I feel a deep connection to Monaseetah and this was intended as I was named after her.
The family name is Yellowbird/Steele and there are many descendants still living on and around the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.
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Post by crzhrs on Jun 12, 2009 13:32:32 GMT -6
That works for me . . . however DC will probably tell you that oral history is not worth anything
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Post by bc on Jun 12, 2009 15:14:56 GMT -6
Wow!! Guess I'd like to hear more about you.
bc
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Post by saheyala on Jun 12, 2009 19:32:54 GMT -6
I will photo bucket some family ancestry photos very soon. I just got off work and am enjoying some well earned time off. I read through some of the postings and I enjoyed reading some of the speculations and talk of my beloved history. In fact, I haven't felt such a rush of energy and life in me in a long while.
I completed a search about Monaseetah a couple years ago and I was pleased to find one story about her, and it even matched the stories passed down. I completed a search today, killing some time at work, and I haven't had time to read everything I found about her! Google must have since improved its search engines.
Monaseetah, from what I was told, was a captive from the sand creek massacre. She was left with a different cheyenne tribe after she was discovered to be pregnant with GAC's child. I often search for stories because all I have is what I am told and what I hold in my memory.
My grandmother gave everything she knew about the history of Monaseetah to the author Renee Flood, she was in the process of writing a book on this very subject. I believe she has past away, as has my grandmother. I hope to someday get a collection of the research she received from my grandmother.
I would love to hear some advice on what to read to get to know my third great grandfather, GAC.
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Post by conz on Jun 13, 2009 9:52:25 GMT -6
You of course have a copy of My Life On the Plains, by George A. Custer. He talks quite a bit about your ancestor in there in his own words. He was, indeed, quite enamored of her.
If you don't have it, you can probably get a large paperback version from Amazon, et al.
Clair
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Post by shatonska on Jun 13, 2009 13:11:47 GMT -6
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Post by varyag on Jun 13, 2009 16:26:37 GMT -6
Hi! This is my first post here. I'm from Sweden and I'll try not to write too much swenglish. Saheyala, I was really intrigued by your posts and wonder if you know Gail Kelly Custer? She claims to be the g g granddaughter of GAC and Monaseetah and she wrote a book about them. You can find it on Amazon or www.abebooks.comI have it but I don't really know what to think of it. In her book Monaseetah's mother is a white woman, born in Ireland, who married the Cheyenne chief Little Rock, Monaseetah's father and Crazy Horse and Gac are best friends. It sounds like fiction but according to GKC it's not There's an article in Wild West Magazine by GKC, and she responds to some critics on it here: www.historynet.com/table-of-contents-june-2009-wild-west.htmI'm looking forward to se your photographs. All the Best Orjan Oh, btw, you can download My Life on the plains from this site. www.archive.org/details/mylifeontheplainsor00custrich
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Post by varyag on Jun 13, 2009 16:32:30 GMT -6
Well, of course that didn't work. Use the link and type the booktitle in the searchbox.
O
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Post by saheyala on Jun 17, 2009 22:08:47 GMT -6
I spoke to my Mother about a Gail Kelly Custer and she said it is possible that she is a relative of ours.. believe it or not there are many many relatives. Nobody that came from Yellowbird took the name of Custer.. I want to assume that is a name she uses for writing? Giving her the benefit of the doubt of course. My 2nd great grandfather, Yellowbird, went by John Yellowbird or John Steele. Here is one of the photos I have of him: I have one more photo of him that has his wife, his mother, and his two sons and more in it. I came from his Son Harry Steele whom was the father of 6 children, one of which was my grandmother Janette Steele. My grandmother, Janette Steele, had nine children and when she died had over 30 grandchildren and 6 great grandchildren.. more have came since she left us in 2001. My grandmother was the story teller and spoke of John and Cheyenne Woman often. Our family has a grave site on the Pine Ridge Indian reservation and Cheyenne Woman is there is an unmarked grave that I may have a hard time identifying without Grandma. My mother had five children and I have five children.. like I said there are many of us. Those are just the ones I came from and do not count the many others still living on Pine Ridge. Not to sound insulting to my people, but Lakota are anything but infertile. I asked my Mother to look through these messages.. she may correct some of my posts and I welcome her to if I am inacurate on anything. I lived with my grandmother for a number of years when I was a child and I specifically remember her bringing out this photo and telling me of her grandfather and the story of his father. I was very young and had no idea the magnitude of it at that time. Thank you on the suggestions for reading.
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