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Post by harpskiddie on Dec 19, 2007 10:02:39 GMT -6
All:
Sorry if I confused the issue. I seem to have confused myself. My point was that Custer's command covered approximately 9 miles from the divide to the junction with Reno in slightly under 2 hours, and that the average speed was therefore much as had been stated for a fast walk - indicating that Custer was not rushing to the Little Horn, but proceeding with a proper amount of caution, and husbanding his horses for whatever might eventuate.
No doubt there was some trotting and galloping along the way by companies or men trying to maintain their places. And no doubt some lagging toward the end of that particular leg of the journey [and subsequently as well]. That [the trying to keep up] would be inevitable with all of the commands, as Benteen mentioned and as happened when Reno led out after receiving his attack order.
I take all of Benteen's time, speed and distance estimates with a grain of salt when it comes to his march to the left, but that's a horse of another color [maybe Palbuckdunchespintopiebald, like my own favorite horse, Spot].
Gordie MC
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Post by elisabeth on Dec 19, 2007 10:02:56 GMT -6
True enough. He mentions investigating the Lone Tepee, for instance, without any delay to his battalion, purely because he was so far ahead. Probably quite useful for a company/battalion commander to have time for such things. Tough on the rest, though.
Interesting that despite the constant trotting, we don't hear of any of Benteen's horses giving out. (I think.) I've heard no anecdotal evidence as to the walking speed of TWC's or Harrington's horses; yet it's Co. C that has the most stragglers. Could leaders' speeds have been a factor? Or was it simply someone's (Harrington's, presumably) gung-ho reluctance to weed out the failing horses that accounts for that?
Incidentally, no-one ever seems to mention the regulation break every hour on the LBH march. I'm not sure that anyone's yet established whether this is because it was so routine that it wasn't worth mentioning, or because it didn't happen. Barnitz in 1868 speaks of Elliott following Custer's example in not dismounting troopers regularly; but it's hard to believe that no-one, e.g. Benteen, would have criticised Custer if he hadn't been doing this in later years. Makes it difficult to calculate the precise speeds, though, not knowing whether they took breaks or not ...
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Post by Dark Cloud on Dec 19, 2007 10:19:18 GMT -6
The descriptions of the ascent of the Rosebud list the breaks, and they don't follow any schedule, and it would be dubious command to affix such a straight jacket in pursuit. Which is why the hysteria over Benteen's watering time is such nonsense, given common sense requirements above manual suggestion.
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Post by crzhrs on Dec 19, 2007 12:29:12 GMT -6
I believe Godfrey did mention something about troopers' horses laboring/falling/lagging behind due to the terrain covered by Benteen's scout.
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Post by sssellew on Jan 7, 2008 13:26:04 GMT -6
Blaque & Harpskiddie,
I am related to William Roland Sellew and can give you info on him including where to find his letters. He was a scout for Miles in 1876. He missed the Custer battle (obviously) but says that he saw the battlefield shortly thereafter.
I am interested in finding more information on him myself.
Sue Sellew Vermont
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Post by blaque on Jan 8, 2008 4:38:16 GMT -6
Welcome to this board, Sue. It would be great if in the letters you mention there’s confirmation that your ancestor was actually one of Custer’s packers. Bearing in mind that Billy Jackson was telling his story 38 years after the event, it’s not unlikely that he might be wrong (specially if a few months after the battle he met Sellew serving under Miles). Here is what he told about Sellew in Los Angeles Times:
After spreading my blankets I changed my mind about lying down, and strolled across camp for a chat with one of the civilian packers who was a close friend of mine. On the way I passed many a group of the soldiers, and noticed that they were more than usually light-hearted and talkative. They were every last one of them eagerly anticipating the morrow’s attack on the hostiles, not knowing, as we scouts did, the fearful odds against us […] However, Billy Sellew, civilian packer, was my friend, and I knew that he could keep a still tounge in his head, so I told him just what we were against. “Well, a man can die but once –he said– and if it is tomorrow for me, here goes. But I bet you I plant some of these cartridges where they belong before I cash in”. And he pointed at the two belts of ammunition around his waist. The June sun comes up over the rim of the Montana plains at about 4 o’clock, but we were all up at 3 o’clock, and on the move shortly after daylight. The sentries, and not the buglers, had awakened us…
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Post by elisabeth on Jan 8, 2008 4:52:53 GMT -6
In Nichols' Men With Custer, p. 393, under "Quartermaster Employees not in the Little Big Horn River Fight", there's a W. C. Slew listed as a teamster. Wrong middle initial, obviously ... but "Slew" would be a very obvious phonetic misspelling for "Sellew". Could be him?
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Post by sssellew on Jan 8, 2008 13:49:14 GMT -6
Hi Elizabeth,
A phonetic speller or someone hard of hearing would have come up with the name Slew. I have seen this spelling before in references to W.R. Sellew.
Here are exerpts from two letters from/to WR Sellew where Bill Jackson is mentioned:
[letter written by WR Sellew to family in CT dated April 21, 1899, Dupuyer, MT] "I got the Homestead and was much pleased with the item on [Gen.] MILES. His last photograph looks more like he did 20 years ago than the one they claim was taken then. I knew all the soldiers in the 5th Infantry and the 7th Cavalry and the 22nd Infantry under Colonel OTIS. I was personally aquatinted with him and guided him on the Little Missouri expedition. I was in the Wolf Mountain fight. When General TERRY left the field, he recommended myself and VIC SMITH to General MILES and said that Smith and I were the only scouts that he could trust and place his full confidence in. Miles also told parties that told me at Big Sandy two years ago, that VIC SMITH and I were the only two scouts that he could believe. When TERRY left the department he sent us to meet MILES command at the mouth of the Powder River. It was pouring rain and we were the first scouts to go to work for him. We supplied the contonment with buffalo meat that winter. It took 3200 lbs per week which he paid us for besides our wages. He argued with us a long time where we were going to quit, and so we stayed with him.
If I should go back to Springfield [MA], I would look up this DENIS RYAN. If he was there he would know me on sight. We knew their faces, but not the soldiers names. There were two other Bills, BILL CROSS and BILL JACKSON. To designate us I was called Wall-Eyed Bill the Saskatchewan scout because there were men there that knew me on the Saskatchewan River. If I do say it, and I never have before, I had the name of a being a very courageous and an Indian fighter. Ask RYAN if he remembers the time MILES went to meet Major LASELL. OTIS command was guarding the supply train and of scout Al GEDDY [GAEHEDER] being killed. That was with me, Glendive SMITH, and the pilgrim that wrote his will. My horse was shot and after the ball passed through it, it went through my leg below the knee. The supply train went back to Glendive for reinforcements after being defeated and we were sent to find it from MILES command. After riding all night until the afternoon of the next day, we were surrounded by the same Indians, in the same place that the supply train was attacked. We held them off until after dark. We joined the wagon train the next morning afoot, our horses having been killed under us and the beginning of the fight. The Indians followed the wagon train and fought it for three days. The Indians held a council with Major LASELL and told him they would rather fight his whole command than the three men they had in the brush. The pilgrim [Bill] TURNER, who went with us to see the country, was so scared that he could not speak or move. GEDDY [SIC] was shot when the fight first started; one ball broke his neck and another hit him in the small of the back, breaking it in two shots, and hit and killed his horse at the same time. This is something I never talk of only to those who know of it, or other similar affairs. MILES was very particular to make sure his men got the best to be had, and plenty of it. There were no appropriations to pay for beef, pay scouts, or for provisions of any kind. He told us he would give us government vouchers and see that we got cash for them if we would see that his soldiers had plenty of meat. People in the east do not believe such facts and would rather believe a dime novel, but many times truth is stranger than fiction."
[September 5, 1899, East Longmeadow, MA. letter from brother Edgar Sellew] "We were glad to read the Billy JACKSON letter to General MILES some years ago that you were the coolest-headed and most-fearless chap he ever saw, and that he could rely on you every time. That was a good recommendation."
I have confirmed that WR Sellew was in the fight that he discusses with Vic Smith. Would like to know if other parts of this letter can be confirmed or if it is just self aggrandizement.
Sue Sellew Vermont
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Post by conz on Jan 8, 2008 14:44:51 GMT -6
Sue,
A note out of Traveler's Guideto the Great Sioux War on the Battle of Wolf Mountain, to confirm some of the details in your letter:
"Miles led seven companies of the Fifth and Twenty-second infantry into the Wolf Mountains to seek out the village. As he neared the Indians on January 8, 1877, Crazy Horse struck and the two forces fought with skill and determination until a blizzard halted the fray at midday. Miles did not pursue the tribesmen, but his aggressiveness again succeeded in neutralizing a major leader and his followers."
Gen'l Miles' cantonment that winter was near the mouth of the Powder River, and his men did "live off the land" during that period.
Clair Conzelman formerly of Montpelier, VT
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Post by sssellew on Jan 10, 2008 15:13:39 GMT -6
Here are a couple of more exerpts from William Roland Sellew's letters that mention Charley Reynolds.
[letter written February 26, 1887, Great Falls, MT] My old partner Charley REYNOLDS was with Custer and was killed. Ran across some Indians and a half-breed who told me that all of Custer’s command was killed. Reno’s command was badly slaughtered up when I found him.
[letter written June 10, 1904, Midvale P.O., Lubec Station, MT] General MILES always gave me high compliments as he used to keep me in the saddle night and day, sometimes three or four nights at a stretch, and long trips in Bad Lands and very hostile country. He paid me as much as $300 for some of those trips, besides my wages, as they were very dangerous. I would come in from those long trips and report to him and sometimes he would start me out the same night on a three- or four-hundred-mile trip. I would ask him why he didn’t send the other scouts, and he would tell me when his Army depended on the reports he could not trust them as they did not investigate thoroughly and then they would lie to him. He said, “I found you go where none of them can go and then you tell me the truth when you get back and can lead me and the command to whatever you have found.” He said, “If CUSTER had known you as I do and trusted to your and REYNOLDS judgment instead of being bull-headed, he would have saved a great many lives as well as his own.”
Susan Sellew Vermont
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