"Horsemanship at LBH"

[fred]

Somewhere on here I saw some stuff on this book by a guy named Robert E. Doran. I ordered it and received it today.

Has anyone read it? I have skimmed through it and I am almost regretting having spent the money (I have already seen some off-the-wall comments). Am I wrong?

Best wishes,
Fred.

[harpskiddie]

Fred:

There are reviews and some discussion of some of the points made by Mr. Doran on the Books About LBH.......board. He does have some novel ideas. I don't think you're wrong.

Gordie
MC

[conz]

It's thought provoking and I think inspires study, so I think it's worth the money.

But it can be very aggravating, as well, not the least of which is the poor editing job done putting the whole work together...it can be as bad as Camp's notes sometimes. <g>

Little things bug me, like his misuse of military terms. A book that stresses military tactics ought to have been edited by a Soldier before publishing. My peeves are:

1. You don't use "Mister" in place of rank. That is a term of endearment used within the military, and comes from West Point (normally only used by West Pointers) and the British military before that. But it isn't now, and wasn't then, used in conversation outside military circles...always use "Lieutenant."

2. Throughout the book he misuses the term "Reconnaissance in Force." This doctrinal term has nothing to do with what Custer was doing that day...it was what Reno was doing the week before. Custer was conducting a "Movement to Contact." Simple swap of terms by a military editor would fix this just fine, because his points are sound regarding doctrine.

3. His entire explanation for why Keogh's battalion went towards Ford A, rather than the commonly expected Yates' E/F, is that L Co was originally assigned to Yates' battalion. But battalions are not fixed...they are created at the whim of the commander. When B Co was taken from Keogh's battalion for the rear guard, that left the senior Captain with two companies, and Yates,' the junior with three. This is not done...so it is so much easier to assume that L Co was re-assigned to Keogh's battalion at the divide, than it is to keep the organization as it was and do leap-frogs in model development to make this organization fit the evidence, which is what Doran spends most of the Custer episode description doing.

Doran emphasizes so much how the Army "commonly" did things then, that to miss this simple reassignment of companies to accommodate the senior Captain (you'll find numerous examples of this military imperative in contemporary accounts) is rather puzzling. To use military protocol to justify other things, and to ignore it here, is just not good logic.

The highlights of this book to me were:

1. His account of the action and movements and decisions made around Ford A...by Reno, then Custer, and then Benteen. Never seen this kind of detail before, and it is masterful. Would like to hear what other well-read students think on his conclusions about this.

2. His description of cavalry tactics...pretty good, not perfect. His discussion of the use of ridges is good...could have been taken right out of a manual today. Of course, his formation of dismounted skirmishers around the horseholders is exactly my "moving square" I described earlier on this board as a standard cavalry technique. Doran obviously knows more about this than many members on the boards here...that knowledge alone should make this book worth everyone to buy! <g> And it has pictures!

The various maps he provides should serve as a model to ALL authors writing on this battle...nobody has done a job as well as Doran using sketches and maps to portray his model. And that's a long list of authors! Again, worth price of book.

Overall, Doran does an excellent job setting up the important episodes to be studied about this battle, and aims you at a good set of references to apply to them. I agree with many of his takes on the evidence, am unconvinced by others, and disagree with a few, but he is looking at the right things, and gives a fresh look at key episodes other authors haven't spent a lot of time on.

I'd rate this as one of those "must have" books, even though it isn't as polished as our more famous authors works have been. This book is about meat, not about looks.

Clair

[fred]

Clair--

Thanks. I appreciate what you have told me. I am afraid, however, as I glance through it more and more, this may have been a mistake. Already-- not even past the table of contents-- he is a Benteen-hater: "The bad blood between Custer and Benteen may have contributed to the tragic destruction of all five companies on the Custer field." I'm sure the number of Indians had nothing to do with it.

And while I love and admire reenactors, this in particular galls me: "There was no switching of companies from one battalion to another due to nepotism as suggested by non-military [emphasis mine] minded researchers." Of course the fact that the placement of bodies on the field belies that comment and the fact that this clown's "military experience" appears to begin and end in a passé blue uniform might suggest something of a "non-military" type himself, doesn't seen to affect him. That kind of comment with absolutely no supporting evidence other than the formation when the column departed Fort Lincoln leads me to scream for Harpskiddie. "Where were you when I made this dumb decision?!"

Well... to the bottom of the pile she goes. This thing appears to be self-published. Am I wrong?

Best wishes,
Fred.

[markland]

fred said:

Clair--

Thanks. I appreciate what you have told me. I am afraid, however, as I glance through it more and more, this may have been a mistake. Already-- not even past the table of contents-- he is a Benteen-hater: "The bad blood between Custer and Benteen may have contributed to the tragic destruction of all five companies on the Custer field." I'm sure the number of Indians had nothing to do with it.

And while I love and admire reenactors, this in particular galls me: "There was no switching of companies from one battalion to another due to nepotism as suggested by non-military [emphasis mine] minded researchers." Of course the fact that the placement of bodies on the field belies that comment and the fact that this clown's "military experience" appears to begin and end in a passé blue uniform might suggest something of a "non-military" type himself, doesn't seen to affect him. That kind of comment with absolutely no supporting evidence other than the formation when the column departed Fort Lincoln leads me to scream for Harpskiddie. "Where were you when I made this dumb decision?!"

Well... to the bottom of the pile she goes. This thing appears to be self-published. Am I wrong?

Best wishes,
Fred.

And don't forget, he used a post-1876 copy of Upton for his theorizing. That is per Keogh.

Billy

P.S. As Gordie said, there is a long, long thread on that book somewhere around here.

[fred]

I thought so, Billy, but I couldn't find it.

Well, I may be able to slog through this thing in a year or two... or three, and maybe there is some decent technical stuff I can use/see/find.

Hey, what the hell. Just another eighteen bucks w/ shipping. No lunch today.

Best wishes,
Fred.

PS-- We all better start paying closer attention to Harpskiddie's advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FCW

[conz]

Yes, Doran relishes too much both his military and horsemanship expertise, neither of which is that impressive, but it is still higher than the average LBH student's in both arenas.

But this isn't a personality contest, after all...both the author and the book editing/presentation are not going to win any beauty convention, but there is still a lot of good examination in this book worth going through.

So if you've already spent money, don't toss it...hold your nose and find some of those great episodes he dives into where others feared to swim...

Clair

[harpskiddie]

HELLO!!! HELLO!! Earth to Fred and Billy:

I'm gonna stop making these things up if you're not going to read them.

THE DISCUSSIONS AND REVIEWS AND STUFF ARE ON "BOOKS ABOUT LBH AND THE INDIAN WARS" WHICH IS JUST DOWN THE INDEX FROM THIS BOARD. THE THREAD DEALING WITH "HORSEMANSHIP AT LBH" IS CALLED, STRANGELY ENOUGH "HORSEMANSHIP AT LBH."

Maybe I should have sent personal messengers ala Mister Doran, who has elebentytwelve of them riding back and forth between Custer and Benteen, bumping into one another in their haste to garble messages. Stay there, come here, go fast, go slow, go to Dairy Queen and get burgers....................................

Gordie
MC
medical consultant

We wouldn't have invented a disease, unless we had something to take for it.

[crzhrs]

Gotta stop using those elipses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . it's such a tip-off.

You punctuation expert . . . Crzhrs!

[fred]

Harps--

I looked for that and didn't see it!!! One beer too many, I guess. Sorry!

Clair--

That's always been my problem; I never trash any book.

Best wishes,
Fred.