Sand Creek - Ned Wynkoop

[Diane Merkel]

Excerpt:

According to a book titled “The Tall Chief,” which is about Edward W. Wynkoop, he had strict orders to shoot to kill on scouting missions, which he tried to enforce in the beginning. After reading a letter from the Cheyennes and Arapaho, it was a turning point for him, the book said. When Wynkoop learned about the massacre, he called Chivington an “inhuman monster.” After a Congressional hearing found in Wynkoop’s favor, he tried to help the Indians.

“He came out to this country thinking what most Easterners thought about the Indians that they were probably savages, but in reality, his mind was changed,” [great-grandson Fred] Wynkoop said. “He befriended the Indians and resigned his commission (after) Sand Creek Massacre.”

Article: www.canoncitydailyrecord.com/Top-Story.asp?ID=6579

[clw]

I've always wanted to learn more about Wynkoop and will put The Tall Chief on my reading list. Thanks, Diane!

[Diane Merkel]

clw, Louis Kraft's book about Wynkoop (first of several) will be published sometime next year. It should be fabulous!

www.louiskraft.com/projects.html
(Click the title of the book to read more.)

[Banned]

Yep, sure.

Wynkoop is known to have stolen goods from Indians and to have covered almost every hostile Indian of the Plain...

www.historynet.com/culture/wild_west/3025016.html

[Banned]

Is that the same Wynkoop who said that Black Kettle's warriors were peaceful despite the fact that Willie Blinn's body wasn't cold? Yes, it is.

[gary]

The Wynkoop family website is worth a look:

freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wynkoop/index.htm

[markland]

custerstands said:

Yep, sure.

Wynkoop is known to have stolen goods from Indians and to have covered almost every hostile Indian of the Plain...

www.historynet.com/culture/wild_west/3025016.html

*sigh* Wynkoop was told by Thomas Murphy, his boss in the Indian Affairs bureau, not to distribute the ammunition and weapons agreed to as part of the annuity as a result of the Solomon/Saline depredations. There is also the fact, whether this came into play at that time or not I haven't checked, that damages awarded to citizens as a result of depredation claims were awarded from the annuity payment of the "guilty" tribe. The tribes also claimed that the goods were stolen because the shipments were late due to the facts that Congress had been late funding the monies, there had been a wet spring and that Sheridan had monopolized much of the available transportion to ship Army supplies to the various forts in preparation for the summer and winter campaigns.

Just another typical CSS case of picking and choosing statements to agree with his contrived position.

Billy

[markland]

custerstands said:

Is that the same Wynkoop who said that Black Kettle's warriors were peaceful despite the fact that Willie Blinn's body wasn't cold? Yes, it is.

The bodies of Mrs. Blinn and her son were found in another camp. Here is an excerpt from GAC's report (he could have used Libbie to edit it!): "On returning from the battle ground to the camp of my command and when in the deserted camp, which according to the statement of some of my Cheyenne prisoners, who were brought along with me, was lately occupied by Satanta with the Kiowas, my men discovered the bodies of a young white woman and child the former apparently about twenty three years of age, and the latter probably eighteen months old. They were evidently mother and child and had not long been in captivity as the woman still retained several articles of her wardrobe about her person, among others a pair of cloth gaiters but little worn ; everything indicated that she had been but recently captured: and upon our attacking and routing Black Kettle's camp, her captors, fearing she might be recaptured by us and her testimony used against them, had deliberately murdered her and her child in cold blood.

The woman had received a shot in the forehead, her entire scalp was removed and her skull horribly crushed. The child also bore numerous marks of violence."

He states earlier in the report that his camp was six miles down from the battlefield.

Billy

[bubbabod]

Nice work, Billy. I have always been a fan of Wynkoop, but I know there are a couple Wynkoop detractors. I remember a few years ago whi Michno was writing his book about Wynkoop, making him a villan in the whole Sand Creek thing. I took exception to his assertions as being just another scenario to write a book about what looks to be cut and dried. Greg was kind enough to email me reports about Wynkoop's alleged misbehavior that he based his book on, for which I thank him. I had occasion to meet him in Rapid City a couple years ago, and he's a real gentleman. But I'm not convinced Wynkoop was anything other than a man who tried to help the Cheyenne. I can't remember if Michno's book was published or not.

[elisabeth]

Yes, Michno's book has been published. Rather mixed reviews on Amazon, but then it's such a sensitive subject that I suppose that's inevitable ...

[shatonska]

is Washita by Greene a good book ?
(got to prepare another list , CH by Bray is huge!)

[clw]

Absolutely. Provides extensive accounts from both sides and is very 'to the point'. I liked it enough to look for other books by him. I like his efforts to present the facts and not devolve into lengthy opinions.

[Banned]

markland said:

custerstands said:

Is that the same Wynkoop who said that Black Kettle's warriors were peaceful despite the fact that Willie Blinn's body wasn't cold? Yes, it is.

The bodies of Mrs. Blinn and her son were found in another camp. Here is an excerpt from GAC's report (he could have used Libbie to edit it!): "On returning from the battle ground to the camp of my command and when in the deserted camp, which according to the statement of some of my Cheyenne prisoners, who were brought along with me, was lately occupied by Satanta with the Kiowas, my men discovered the bodies of a young white woman and child the former apparently about twenty three years of age, and the latter probably eighteen months old. They were evidently mother and child and had not long been in captivity as the woman still retained several articles of her wardrobe about her person, among others a pair of cloth gaiters but little worn ; everything indicated that she had been but recently captured: and upon our attacking and routing Black Kettle's camp, her captors, fearing she might be recaptured by us and her testimony used against them, had deliberately murdered her and her child in cold blood.

The woman had received a shot in the forehead, her entire scalp was removed and her skull horribly crushed. The child also bore numerous marks of violence."

He states earlier in the report that his camp was six miles down from the battlefield.

Billy

Who actually found the bodies ? Neither Sheridan nor Custer. It was the men of the 17th Kansas. And they all said that it was near the location of Black Kettle's death, on the Washita battlefield.

[Banned]

bubbabod said:

Nice work, Billy. I have always been a fan of Wynkoop, but I know there are a couple Wynkoop detractors. I remember a few years ago whi Michno was writing his book about Wynkoop, making him a villan in the whole Sand Creek thing. I took exception to his assertions as being just another scenario to write a book about what looks to be cut and dried. Greg was kind enough to email me reports about Wynkoop's alleged misbehavior that he based his book on, for which I thank him. I had occasion to meet him in Rapid City a couple years ago, and he's a real gentleman. But I'm not convinced Wynkoop was anything other than a man who tried to help the Cheyenne. I can't remember if Michno's book was published or not.

It was: "Battle at Sand Creek", Upton and Sons, 2004

[clw]

custerstands said:

Who actually found the bodies ? Neither Sheridan nor Custer. It was the men of the 17th Kansas. And they all said that it was near the location of Black Kettle's death, on the Washita battlefield.

Custer says in his written report, by his own pen......... my men discovered the bodies of a young white woman and child the former apparently about twenty three years of age.

Surely you aren't questioning the word your Golden Boy?