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Post by mwkeogh on Nov 22, 2007 2:14:40 GMT -6
Happy Thanksgiving to all and don't forget to stuff yourselves till you are full of it. lol Didn't they celebrate George Washington's birthday with a big dance or was that a figment of John Wayne's & John Ford's imagination to make for better movies by adding things that allowed casting of women and including them in a cavalry movie? But then community dances were the common form of entertainment back in the day and maybe they did them regularly for any variety of reasons. You are absolutely correct bc. Washington's Birthday was celebrated as the 2nd most important patriotic holiday in our calendar throughout the 19th century and earlier! It was first celebrated in 1778 and was voted a national holiday by congress in 1870 until our dearly beloved President Nixon, in all of his infinite wisdom, watered it down in 1971 to the rather bland and shallow 'President's Day', I suppose to include himself in that rather inclusive categorie.
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Post by BrokenSword on Nov 22, 2007 6:30:58 GMT -6
Actually......
Neither Congress nor any President has ever declared a National Holiday that applied beyond The District of Columbia or covered anyone other than Federal employees. It has always been left to the various States to do that.
Since 1870, 1,100 separate proposals have been introduced to declare holidays covering various things. 11 have been so approved. A quick look at the 365 day calendar begs the question, "If you do all that, then what are we paying our taxes for?" (We are not Italy, after all)
Washington's Birthday was observed as such by the Federals but the state of Illinois also celebrated Lincoln's Birthday and wanted it added to the list of National holidays. Various other organizations had their own demands for holidays by the 1960s. The front runner of course was a day for Martin Luther King, Jr's Birthday, and was felt to be a fore gone conclusion for inclusion. A day would need to be cleared from the holiday calendar for that eventuality.
Things threatened to get a bit out of hand and so:
[From Wikipedia] 'The Uniform Monday Holiday Act (public law no. 90-363) is a United States law that amended the federal holiday provisions of the United States Code to establish the observance of certain holidays on Mondays. The Act was signed into law on June 28, 1968 and took effect on January 1, 1971.
The Act moved Memorial Day, Washington's Birthday, and Veterans Day from fixed dates to designated Mondays and created a new holiday, Columbus Day, which also falls on a Monday. The law was designed to give federal employees more three-day weekends. Veterans Day was eventually removed from this list of Monday holidays when it was moved back to its traditional date of November 11.
Contrary to popular perception, the Act did not establish "Presidents' Day," nor did it combine the observance of Lincoln's birthday with Washington's.'
It wasn't President Nixon what did that to poor old George W. It was MLK and Columbus as well as President Lyndon Johnson - who actually signed the holiday schedule as concocted by Congress.
keogh's slight confusion comes from what politicians are so adept at: Taking an action (sometimes unwise or for selfish political motives) and arranging for the next guy to explain it.
M
P.S. - I might add. As a former, operations manager (designer of monthly schedules) and owner of a small business that: In the words of my hero, Ebenezer Scrooge, ".....[holidays] ...are a poor excuse for picking an honest employer's pocket. A humbug, Sir!" Or, words to that effect.
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Post by biggordie on Nov 26, 2008 10:49:47 GMT -6
I ain't altogether certain that this THANKSGIVING is not a misnomer for many, all of whom deserve our prayers and caring. If you are at all able to spare something, no matter how seemingly small, please donate to your local food banks. A couple of bucks, a couple of cans of soup, a couple of packages of pasta - anything will be a big help to those who depend upon those banks [and they never get a trillion dollar bailout!!]. Or an old sweater or blanket to a homeless shelter. Something usable.
Anyway, enough of my preaching. I'd like to wish everyone who might read this A VERY HAPPY THANKSGIVING, with lots of good times with families and/or friends, and that same wish goes out to members of the Associates forum, of which I am not a member - but which does house some of my old friends from this one.
All the best to everyone!!!!!
Gordie
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Post by crzhrs on Nov 26, 2008 12:38:29 GMT -6
Happy Turkey Day to one & all!
And a moment of contemplation for our Indigenous friends!
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Post by BrokenSword on Nov 26, 2008 12:49:14 GMT -6
Actually ... Did I read somewhere that turkey was NOT one of the menu items at the first Thanksgiving feast? The one held when the Indians and the settlers were still friends.
M
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Post by bc on Nov 26, 2008 13:33:55 GMT -6
Happy Turkey Day to all you turkeys and to the rest of you while I'm at it.
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Post by crzhrs on Nov 26, 2008 13:34:35 GMT -6
The Pilgrims' Menu: Foods That May Have Been on the Menu:
Seafood: Cod, Eel, Clams, Lobster Wild Fowl: Wild Turkey, Goose, Duck, Crane, Swan, Partridge, Eagles
Meat: Venison, Seal
Grain: Wheat Flour, Indian Corn
Vegetables: Pumpkin, Peas, Beans, Onions, Lettuce, Radishes, Carrots
Fruit: Plums, Grapes
Nuts: Walnuts, Chestnuts, Acorns
Herbs and Seasonings: Olive Oil, Liverwort, Leeks, Dried Currants, Parsnips
What Was Not on the Menu: Surprisingly, the following foods, all considered staples of the modern Thanksgiving meal, didn't appear on the pilgrims's first feast table: Ham: There is no evidence that the colonists had butchered a pig by this time, though they had brought pigs with them from England.
Sweet Potatoes/Potatoes: These were not common.
Corn on the Cob: Corn was kept dried out at this time of year.
Cranberry Sauce: The colonists had cranberries but no sugar at this time.
Pumpkin Pie: It's not a recipe that exists at this point, though the pilgrims had recipes for stewed pumpkin.
Chicken/Eggs: We know that the colonists brought hens with them from England, but it's unknown how many they had left at this point or whether the hens were still laying.
Milk: No cows had been aboard the Mayflower, though it's possible that the colonists used goat milk to make cheese.
Source: Kathleen Curtin, Food Historian at Plimoth Plantation ____
PS: There is still some controversy whether turkey was part of the 1st Thanksgiving (crzhrs)
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Post by crzhrs on Nov 26, 2008 13:39:39 GMT -6
More Turkey Talk:
The Wampanoag and Plymouth colonists often ate wild turkey, however it was not specifically mentioned in connection with the Winslow version of the 1621 harvest celebration. Edward Winslow said only that four men went hunting and brought back large amounts of “fowl” – more likely from the scenario to be seasonal waterfowl such as ducks and geese. And what about the stuffing? Yes, the Wampanoag and English did occasionally stuff the birds and fish, typically with herbs, onions or oats (English only).
The typical menu of Thanksgiving dinner is actually more than 200 years younger than that 1621 celebration and reflects both the holiday’s New England roots and a Victorian nostalgia for an imaginary time when hearth and home, family and community, were valued over progress and change. But while we have been able to work out which modern dishes were not available in 1621, just what was served is a tougher nut to crack.
What was really served at the First Thanksgiving
There are only two contemporary accounts of the 1621 Thanksgiving: First is Edward Winslow's account, which he wrote in a letter dated December 12, 1621. The complete letter was first published in 1622.
Our corn [i.e. wheat] did prove well, and God be praised, we had a good increase of Indian corn, and our barley indifferent good, but our peas not worth the gathering, for we feared they were too late sown. They came up very well, and blossomed, but the sun parched them in the blossom. Our harvest being gotten in, our governor sent four men on fowling, that so we might after a special manner rejoice together after we had gathered the fruit of our labors. They four in one day killed as much fowl as, with a little help beside, served the company almost a week. At which time, amongst other recreations, we exercised our arms, many of the Indians coming amongst us, and among the rest their greatest king Massasoit, with some ninety men, whom for three days we entertained and feasted, and they went out and killed five deer, which they brought to the plantation and bestowed on our governor, and upon the captain and others. And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us, yet by the goodness of God, we are so far from want that we often wish you partakers of our plenty.
He also further describes the bounty of the Plymouth Colony in his later writings --
Our bay is full of lobsters all the summer and affordeth variety of other fish; in September we can take a hogshead of eels in a night, with small labor, and can dig them out of their beds all the winter. We have mussels ... at our doors. Oysters we have none near, but we can have them brought by the Indians when we will; all the spring-time the earth sendeth forth naturally very good sallet herbs. Here are grapes, white and red, and very sweet and strong also. Strawberries, gooseberries, raspas, etc. Plums of tree sorts, with black and red, being almost as good as a damson; abundance of roses, white, red, and damask; single, but very sweet indeed… These things I thought good to let you understand, being the truth of things as near as I could experimentally take knowledge of, and that you might on our behalf give God thanks who hath dealt so favorably with us.1
The second description was written about twenty years after the fact by William Bradford in his History Of Plymouth Plantation. Bradford's History was rediscovered in 1854 after having been taken by British looters during the Revolutionary War. Its discovery prompted a greater American interest in the history of the Pilgrims. It is also in this account that the Thanksgiving turkey tradition is founded.
They began now to gather in the small harvest they had, and to fit up their houses and dwellings against winter, being all well recovered in health and strength and had all things in good plenty. For as some were thus employed in affairs abroad, others were exercising in fishing, about cod and bass and other fish, of which they took good store, of which every family had their portion. All the summer there was no want; and now began to come in store of fowl, as winter approached, of which this place did abound when they came first (but afterward decreased by degrees). And besides waterfowl there was great store of wild turkeys, of which they took many, besides venison, etc. Besides they had about a peck of meal a week to a person, or now since harvest, Indian corn to that proportion. Which made many afterwards write so largely of their plenty here to their friends in England, which were not feigned but true reports.
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