Weir and the Young Lady

[Regular Army-O]

Can anyone identify the young lady in this photograph?



Thanks

RAO

[elisabeth]

It's Nina Tilford, Major Tilford's daughter, I believe.

Does anyone know what happened to her? She looks as if she'd grow up to be even more of a beauty than the Sturgis girls.

Something odd about this photo; Libbie has an anecdote in one of her books stressing what a faux pas it was to wear high boots with dress uniform. She was talking about 1866 dress rules, so maybe they changed later, but even so ... can't think of any other photo where anyone wears them. Also it would seem not to be taken in a photographer's studio, from the bare wall and bare boards. Wish we knew the story behind it!

[Regular Army-O]

Thank-you very much Elizabeth. I typed Nina Tilford into Google and found this:

www.arlingtoncemetery.net/ghcameron.htm

Somehow I think there is a life story worth telling here.

RAO

[Regular Army-O]

elisabeth said:

Something odd about this photo; Libbie has an anecdote in one of her books stressing what a faux pas it was to wear high boots with dress uniform. She was talking about 1866 dress rules, so maybe they changed later, but even so ... can't think of any other photo where anyone wears them. Also it would seem not to be taken in a photographer's studio, from the bare wall and bare boards. Wish we knew the story behind it!

Here's a photo of Nina with Elizabeth Custer. Do you think these were taken on the same day? Nina Tilford looks very similar...boots, striped stockings, dress, hair-do and...an ear ring? Glad times have changed...

RAO

[elisabeth]

Well, that clearly is a studio, but yes, she's wearing exactly the same get-up, even to the complicated fold on the skirt -- so it could very likely have been the same day. Wonder if it was some specially big day for her -- a crucial birthday, or being sent back east to school, or something?

What do you make of Libbie in this one? Her clothes look unusually theatrical for her. One would almost suspect a bit of amateur dramatics, except that as far as I know Libbie didn't take part in such herself ...

[Regular Army-O]

It is a rather "festive" outfit. I need to do some more digging.

RAO

[elisabeth]

Actually, I'm beginning to wonder. There's something faintly un-Libbie-ish about this picture, beyond the clothes and the rakish angle of the hat. Maybe it's just the way the shadow's cast on her face, or that the expression's not her usual for-the-camera seraphic smile; but is it Libbie? I know it was put on the web by a Tilford, who should know; presumably it's either identified on the back, or family tradition has always said it's Libbie. And the features are more or less right -- except that the mouth looks wider than usual, and the nose more pronounced. The cheekbones are sharper than we normally see them, too. Plus she looks quite tall in relation to Nina, whereas we're always told she was tiny. Maybe it is just the ferocious expression that's throwing me ... What do you think?

[crzhrs]

According to the nina "site" she died in 1960. 1960! I wonder if she wrote anything about her experiences. And what she thought of Weir and whoever else she knew from the 7th, including Libbie & George.

[Tricia]

regulararmyo said:

It is a rather "festive" outfit. I need to do some more digging.

RAO

I've got the feeling that might have been Nina's best dress. Reading Katherine Gibson's narrative, fine clothing was quite hard to come by out in the DT and on a major's salary ... If one compares photos taken of the Wadsworth sisters during the summer of 1875, they continuously are depicted wearing the same dresses whether on a picnic near the Heart River or in GAC's living room.

Also, the background on Weir's photo looks quite familiar. I know I've seen it somewhere else, but can't think of where off-hand.

Hope this helps.
LMC

[rch]

There is an anomaly in the photo of Weir and Nina Tilford. The horsehair plume of his helmet and the stripes on his trousers are white. They usually photograph black. Does anyone know why these items usually come out black in the first place?

rch

[elisabeth]

No idea about the physics. But taken with the boots anomaly -- is it possible this is some kind of fancy dress, rather than proper 7th Cavalry uniform?

[Tricia]

rch said:

There is an anomaly in the photo of Weir and Nina Tilford. The horsehair plume of his helmet and the stripes on his trousers are white. They usually photograph black. Does anyone know why these items usually come out black in the first place?

rch

Well spotted, rch!

Perhaps the photographer did some burning as he printed the effected area? The right side of the image--closest to the hat--looks a bit burned out. This is a time where seeing the original plate of the photo would help ... sigh. That would tell us if it was something that happened in the lab rather than a happy accident of 19th Century chemistry.

--LMC

[Regular Army-O]

ricemclean said:

...the background on Weir's photo looks quite familiar. I know I've seen it somewhere else, but can't think of where off-hand.

Leyton,

Good tip. I looked through a bunch of D.F. Barry photos and found this one of Lt. Luther Hare with a similar backdrop.



Thanks.

RAO

[Regular Army-O]

rch said:

There is an anomaly in the photo of Weir and Nina Tilford. The horsehair plume of his helmet and the stripes on his trousers are white. They usually photograph black. Does anyone know why these items usually come out black in the first place?

rch,

I can't explain it, but there would appear to have been two versions of the dress uniform. The top photo is of Capt. McDougall in the uniform you described. The bottom photo is of a dress uniform alleged to have been Lt. Varnum's. It looks similar to what Weir is wearing (no pun intended) in the photo with Nina Tilford.



.

I've got a book on uniforms of the period which I will dig into tomorrow to see what it reveals.

Thanks

RAO

[Regular Army-O]

elisabeth said:

Actually, I'm beginning to wonder. There's something faintly un-Libbie-ish about this picture, beyond the clothes and the rakish angle of the hat. Maybe it's just the way the shadow's cast on her face, or that the expression's not her usual for-the-camera seraphic smile; but is it Libbie? I know it was put on the web by a Tilford, who should know; presumably it's either identified on the back, or family tradition has always said it's Libbie. And the features are more or less right -- except that the mouth looks wider than usual, and the nose more pronounced. The cheekbones are sharper than we normally see them, too. Plus she looks quite tall in relation to Nina, whereas we're always told she was tiny. Maybe it is just the ferocious expression that's throwing me ... What do you think?

Elizabeth,

I don't know but it bears checking into. I'll see what I can turn up.

RAO